No better time to introduce domestic Israeli precision-guided munitions

As of the current state of the devserver, it looks like most nations now have access to GPS weapons, winged bombs, and all sorts of other PGMs that last year would seem insane to add to the game. Israel is known for its development of many many many PGMs as well as their export. I will maybe make a list of most if not all of the Israeli PGMs I’d like to see in War Thunder one day but for now, I want to talk about a few of them that should’ve arrived at the game a while ago as well as some that can appear now thanks to the addition of the AASM 250 HAMMER and GBU-39 SDB I.


Tadmit guided bomb
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The Popeye’s predecessor. Like how in the family cookout your dad/uncle gives you a small kebab to munch on as the lamb and ribeye steaks cook, Rafael provided the IDF/AF with the Tadmit guided bomb in 1972 1974 as Popeye continued development until entering service in 1985. The Tadmit used a much simpler version of the TV seeker which the Popeye will use, and was the first weapon in IDF service to feature datalink capability where the seeker could be controlled via datalink even after the bomb dropped. In the 1982 First Lebanon War, the Tadmit bomb was used with extreme efficiency against the Syrian air defense units in Operation Mole Cricket 19, with most of the SAAF and Syrian AA batteries being vaporized in 1 damn day. The IDF/AF lost no aircraft in the operation and only had 2 F-15s slightly damaged and returned home safe (and a UAV got shot down but who cares). There’s a reason they called it the “Bekaa Valley turkey shoot”.

Ingame, it would be possible to include the Tadmit without its datalink feature like how Gaijin added the British AJ.168 missiles to the Buccaneer S.2B. This way, the Tadmit would be a better alternative to the GBU-8 on the Kurnass and Kurnass 2000 without breaking the game. The exact specs of the Tadmit are unknown but it seems to share the same dimensions as the Popeye so it could be assumed for now that they have a similar weight and warhead with the Popeye weighing a bit more due to being an AGM.

Tadmit Gallery

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Popeye guided missile

Popeye is a standoff air-to-ground missile with a modular seeker and warhead, and it was exported to a few nations. Just like the Tadmit before it, Popeye is connected to the launching aircraft via datalink and can have its seeker controlled and lock onto targets post-launch. Being a missile, Popeye has a larger range compared to Tadmit and is widely used on modern Israeli aircraft like the F-16 and F-15. The Popeye was first fitted to the F-4E Kurnass and later the Kurnass 2000 becoming their signature weapon. Popeye was exported to the USA in 1991, initially named “AGM-142 Raptor” but when the F-22 snatched that name it was re-named into “AGM-142 Have Nap”. Unlike the IDF/AF, the USAF actually bothered to name each possible variant of the AGM-142: AGM-142A for the Popeye with a TV seeker and HE warhead, AGM-142B for the Popeye with an Imaging IR seeker and a HE warhead, AGM-142C for the Popeye with a TV seeker and an AP warhead, and AGM-142D for the Popeye with an Imaging IR seeker and an AP warhead.

Starting in 1993, the US would put their aging AGM-142s through a 3-stage PEP (Producibility Enhancement Program) which would create improved variants of the Popeye which would be exported to other nations via the US (paying royalties to Israel, of course). The PEP program would continue up to around 1998 and introduce a couple of upgrades including but not limited to motor and airframe improvements, new electronics (both hardware and software), a new inertial measurement unit for more accurate inertial navigation, and a new-and-improved Imaging IR seeker named “Z-seeker” for having a much-improved seeker zoom. Among the export variants is the AGM-142E for Australia’s F-111Cs which has the AGM-142D’s seeker and warhead configuration with the PEP upgrades, the AGM-142F which was similar to the AGM-142E except it also featured clipped wings and was exported to Israel (quite ironic), and AGM-142G/H which were exported to South Korea’s F-4Es with the difference between them being the G variant used a simpler seeker (still upgraded from the original AGM-142B/D, has a new CCD unit) and the H variant has the Z-seeker. Israel also directly exported the Popeye to India and Turkey.

In 1994, Israel came up with the Popeye 2, a slightly smaller and lighter version of the Popeye with new hardware and software upgrades as well as secondary GPS guidance and extended range. The main upgrade was the weight reduction, the original Popeye weighs 1360kg (~3000lb) and thus was too heavy to use on the F-16 as each one of its internal pylons can only support up to 1200kg. The Popeye 2 was just barely light enough to be able to fit onto a single pylon of the F-16. The US also tested Popeye 2 (named “AGM-142 Have Lite”) but ultimately decided not to procure it.

Ingame, the Popeye would act as a missile version of Tadmit, having more range and speed compared to it. Contrary to popular belief, the original Popeye did not feature GNSS guidance as this feature was only introduced on the Popeye 2, so if it does not come with the datalink feature it would behave more or less like a fatter Kh-29TD. The introduction of Popeye to the game could boost the CAS options of many nations, not just Israel. Britain’s Aussie F-111C could get the AGM-142E and the US could get the AGM-142A/B/C/D on their F-16C, F-15C, and F-15E.

Popeye Gallery

Popeye/AGM-142

AGM-142E
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AGM-142F



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AGM-142G/H



Popeye 2
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SPICE guided bombs

Smart Precise-Impact Cost-Effective is one of Rafael’s most successful products. SPICE 2000 and SPICE 1000 act as guidance kits for dumb bombs while SPICE 250 and SPICE 250 ER are unique, dedicated bomb units. Just like Popeye, the seeker head of SPICE bombs is modular and can come in either a TV seeker or an Imaging IR seeker. SPICE 250 ER is a later variant of the SPICE 250 which introduced a microjet engine to further extend its range.

Ingame, I can understand why Gaijin would be a bit skeptical about introducing SPICE 250 just yet as you’d be able to take 16 of them on the F-16D and F-16I and a whopping 28 of them on the F-15I, but with recent PGM additions to other nations, the SPICE 1000 can now be introduced to the game whereas the SPICE 2000 should’ve appeared ingame a while ago considering it lacks wings. SPICE bombs could be introduced not only to Israeli toptier aircraft but also possibly to the Gripen, Rafale, and Eurofighter, giving NATO countries a good CAS weapon to be able to face the mighty Pantsir. Obviously, SPICE 250 ER is way too advanced for the game right now.

SPICE Gallery

SPICE 2000
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SPICE 1000


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SPICE 250




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SPICE 250 ER


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Lizard laser-guided bombs

Lizard LGBs are Elbit’s homebrewed laser-guidance conversion kit for dumb bombs, and it has several generations. For older Israeli jets like the Kurnass 2000, we could see Lizard 2 replace the current Paveways. For newer jets like the F-15 and F-16, they could receive both Lizard 3 and Lizard 4 as additions rather than replacements to the Paveways. Lizard 3 adds inertial navigation, and Lizard 4 adds secondary GNSS guidance which would put it on par with the Enhanced Paveway IIs.

Ingame, annoyingly enough, the Brazilian AMX A-1A already received the Lizard 2 LGBs before any Israeli aircraft got them. For Israeli aircraft (and other nations’ aircraft that have them), the Lizard 3 and Lizard 4 would be an upgrade over regular Paveways.

Lizard Gallery

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There are more Israeli PGMs to talk about, but I’d rather do that in a more well-organized post. These are the weapons I want to see in the near future for Israeli aircraft and whoever else can carry them. Until then, see y’all around!

13 Likes

Whilst I’m happy they finally folded and gave Ra’am 65D’s this coming update, nothing will ever fully substitute for all the domestic munitions the tree still sorely lacks.

Everything listed here would be a welcomed addition to game. We really need to end this total ingame reliance on what has already been modeled for the US, and finally give us some unique stuff to work with.

3 Likes

With the recent unveiling of Russian GNSS-guided winged bombs in the files, I offer Israel’s equivelant weaponry: Range Extension & Smart Tail bombs, aka: REST


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amazing work! hope gaijin will listen because it is really a shame that israel doesn’t get these weapons ingame yet

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I suppose at least 6 aircraft access domestic israel precision-guided munition

  • F-4E Kurnass 2000 (AGM-142 unknown variant)
  • F-111C (AGM-142E)
  • F-16C Block 40 Barak (SPICE 1000 & 2000)
  • F-16D Block 40 Barak (SPICE 2000)
  • F-15I Ra’am (SPICE 2000 & 250)
  • AMX A-11 (Lizard II)
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Just clarifying: Popeye = AGM-142, but only Popeyes on US aircraft should be named AGM-142 as only the US used that naming scheme for the non-upgraded Popeyes. Only exceptions being the upgraded Popeyes on other countries, particularly the Israel-exported AGM-142F. Gaijin could name the Popeyes in the Israeli tree with the AGM-142 designation, but I’d prefer not to as to prevent less educated folks from thinking those are US-made AGMs.

Here’s how I’d designate the names for Israel and the US for each basic variant:

  • Popeye with TV seeker and HE warhead
    • Israel - Popeye (TV) / Hanit Na’a (TV)
    • US - AGM-142A
  • Popeye with IIR seeker and HE warhead
    • Israel - Popeye (IIR) / Hanit Na’a (IIR)
    • US - AGM-142B
  • Popeye with TV seeker and I-800 penetration warhead
    • Israel - Popeye I-800 (TV) / Hanit Na’a I-800 (TV)
    • US - AGM-142C
  • Popeye with IIR seeker and I-800 penetration warhead
    • Israel - Popeye I-800 (IIR) / Hanit Na’a I-800 (IIR)
    • US - AGM-142D

If you wonder why I included an alternative “Hanit Na’a” name for the Israeli-used Popeyes, it’s the IDF-designated of Popeye and it translates to Handsome Spear.

1 Like

how diffirent would popeyes function ingame compared to agm65s

Much more range and explosives in each one, but fewer to carry on an aircraft. I think the Ra’am carries 2 if not 3.

2 max (one on each wing pylon)

Technically it can use all of the base variants of Popeye I. Also, the F-4E Kurnass also used Popeyes.
Yes the non-2000 one.
![popeye2jpg|308x218]
(upload://qDWFiSCgMKd0p1LmwGcdvmBYRAu.png)

It can also use Python 3s but it’d throw the balance too far off.

Really hope it’s not true and it gets 3 per pylon, otherwise I call bullshit. Talking about AGM-65s btw.

Otherwise than the obvious differences in size and explosive filler, Popeyes have a larger moving target lock-on range. The lack of GPS and the lack of the IRL datalink feature (which Gaijin should not implement yet as it’d be way too OP right now) should mean they could not be targeted at a deaignated point further than 20km, tho the moving target lock range ahould not be nowhere near 20km anyway. Popeyes also have a much longer burn time on their rocket motor so they’d reach the target faster than even the Kh-29TD (at least supersonic).

2 Likes

Don’t forget about Opher, what is essentially an IR guided Lizard )))

Spoiler

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F-4E Kurnass (like USAF F-4E but not equipped AN/AVQ-23A/B Pave Spike targeting pod) from israel tech tree never access Popeye

F-4E Kurnass 2000 armed Popeye I, maybe

Image link error ?

AMX A-11 from italy tech tree carried Lizard II laser guided bomb ?

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popeye2jpg

Image does not appear for some reason so I uploaded it again. Also @oom1992 it’s not a Kurnass 2000 because there’s no “קורנס 2000” inscription and the paintjob is different (different pattern than what Kurnass 2000 usually uses).

I used to have much better images in higher resolution but lost them, will try to find them again. Popeye entered service in 1985 after Tadmit entered service around 1974 (and the F-4E Kurnass used those extensively), the Kurnass 2000 only entered service in 1989.

2 Likes

honestly i expect the adiition of israeli munitions around mid 2025 when f18 gets added , i could see gaijin adding then popeye,spice(1000,2000) and some lizards

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Seeing Opher bombs for older Israeli aircraft would be really fun to see indeed.

1 Like