I only quickly glanced, still doesnt mean it should be “top tier” because of introduction date
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so wheres my bismarck
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fair enough.
still, F-15C MSIP II came when it should have, and its hardly a counterpart for the Typhoon regardless of what others have said.
with the typhoon and rafale we got, an F-15C with AN/APG-63v3 wouldve been a more correct counterpart.
BOL should have come to every US F-15 too
If we forget introduction dates, because they mean bugger in war thunder.
Then no. F-15C should be 14.0, it has the same performance as the Typhoon currnetly. If the US had only gotten the F-16C and AV-8B+ with AMRAAM in June and then got the F-15C in the same update as the Typhoon and Rafale, then they would have been fine.
The fact they had to get it 6 months first and just steam rolled for 6 months just shows Gaijins bias towards the major nations.
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F-22 and Eurofighter are not of the same class and I will die on this hill, it’s a testament to the design of both that we even compare them. Typhoon and Rafale are attempts to perfect a concept, that concept being 4th generation air combat.
F-22 set out to reinvent it. Hence the difference in Generation classification. It is its own unique class yet to be rivalled but closest rivalled by the J-20, J-35 and (definitely not) the Su-57.
A couple of stats I think you might find interesting. Eurofighter development costs ~$ 65270300000.00 (65 Billion). F-22 development costs in excess of $100 billion.
Eurofighter partner nation unit cost; ~$97 million, F-22 unit cost in excess of $200 million.
You can indeed classify things yes, but they can always be further classified.
Introduction date is a horrendous metric to base any evaluation on.
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fact that only ~200 were produced also matters in that.
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Definitely important, UK eurofighters for example were initially cheaper than other nations, I factored this in, this was the low-ball figure. The highball figure was $350 million.
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104506/f-22-raptor/
this says $143 million
i think highball figure is total program cost divided by # of combat F-22 made
GAO also says it was $67 billion for the program overall
Still a heck of a ton just to pop some party ballons
all that money for an enemy that didnt exist anymore. Im sure the experience from it is going to helpful in coming years though
already not that far from other planes
You haven’t factored in inflation, that figure comes out of their purchasing price in 2005, which also increased when they failed to buy the 750 originally tendered, and then the 500, and then the 350. . Also that figure is exclusively production cost and doesn’t factor in the markup applied by Lockheed. I looked into that figure.
Which again, doesn’t factor in inflation, and is also the lowest possible cost I found quoted. But I can find at least 5 other sources suggesting at least $200 billion and most suggesting $350 billion.
Regardless my point stands, they are not contemporaries, they are also not equals, and its reflected principally in the economics. Which even using the lowest low-ball figures you can find, suggest at least a 30% excess cost for the F-22 over the Eurofighter, in every single metric. EFT and Rafale contemporaries are other 4.5th gens. A jet at the top of the 5th gen air performance is a luxury.
Also, didn’t the USAF lie repeatedly to congress in order to defend the project?
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im guessing the Typhoon costs you posted are adjusted?
For inflation yes, for production costs also yes, but doesn’t factor in upgrade costs but those adjust the price by a maximum of maybe $20 million at most when you add up all the upgrades? Maybe round off at like $120 million max.
just like we can blame the US for having mid 4.5 gen jets and will just have to wait until 5th gen to have a chance at reclaiming the title of air meta
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ok, but then comparing the F-15C to the Typhoon is more egregious than F-22 to Typhoon econmically, since F-15C unit cost as of 1998 is a little under $30 million, adjusted to 2025 that is $58-59 million. so Typhoon costs 64-67% more, using your $97 million unit cost
I still want the Boxer CTA40 I think that will be the end of the line light tank for the UK
F-15 advanced eagle series could compete decently against eurocanards
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and it makes sense Typhoon should have ASRAAM as it was already in service before the EFT was finish was was designed as the main IIR missile for the british EFT oh wait
it wasnt the IIR a2a missile update though was it?