eurofighter typhoon is way too much at the moment even the earliest variant would be too much and a balancing nightmare
Sir, if you got WVR of those aircraft you screwed up.
However, it’s good to know you think F-18 is DOA too.
And no, SARHs are infinitely inferior to AMRAAMs.
An R-27ER will be able to take out an F-4F ICE before the AMRAAM reaches its target. Even in BVR it will be outclassed.
And I never mentioned anything about the F-18.
there’s late F-15C versions with AESA, a lot of different actual versions fall under the F-15C umbrella
R-27ER will be defeated then AMRAAM will continue & kill the target.
Huh? This comment is full of non-sense.
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Stealth is a 5th gen requirement, not 4.5 gen. Although certain 4.5 gen jets have their airframes designed to limit the RCS (F/A-18E/F), others don’t (including Su-30 that you mentioned). And even those that do have RCS reduction, their RCS it’s nowhere near the 5th gen level (0.5 square meters vs 0.001)
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AESA, Tranche 1, 2, and early Tranche 3 Typhoon uses a solid state mechanically scanned array radar (Captor M). the AESA variant (Captor E) just finished its development a few years ago, and were only installed on the Tranche 3A (Exported to Kuwait and Qatar) and Tranche 4 variants of the jet that entered service in 2022. The Germans and RAF is planning to upgrade their older Tranche 2 and 3 jets to Captor E through a modernization program.
If Typhoon is added, it’s fairly certain Gaijin will introduce the Tranche 1 and 2, and those jets are on the same level as F-15C/J post MSIP upgrade, where’s the issue?
Btw, of the jet that you listed, Su-30 never had AESA, not even the latest variant of the jet – Su-30SM2. Even the Su-35S still uses a PESA radar. Rafale’s situation is similar to the Typhoon, only the late variants have the AESA RBE2 radar installed.
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Computer systems: Oh boy, F-15C had AN/APG63(V)2 AESA radar installed during the 2000s, so technically F-15C after the MSIP II upgrade had better avionics than Tranche 1/2 typhoon, Su-30, and early Rafales. You second and third point "AESA + computer systems/avionics only proved that late F-15Cs are on par or better than some of those jets that you listed.
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Supercruise, the term isn’t a hard limit, it simply means the jet is able to go over mach 1 without the use of AB. In a clean configuration and right altitude, F-15C COULD achieve supercruise. As for F-15EX, Boeing stated that it has the ability too. Obviously the Typhoon has a better supercruise ability than the Eagle, but the capability was never a requirement for 4.5 gen jet anyway.
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Good Maneuverability: Good/bad maneuverability is again not a hard limit, it’s only a relative comparison. The Typhoon and Rafale excels in maneuverability, but if you’re absolutely wrong if you think other jets are not considered as advanced. The F-15s have better verticals maneuverability than the flankers, the two has advantages over one another if you look at different flight characteristics, why do you include the Su-30 and not the F-15?
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Good BVR: Ah, again, the F-15C in the 2000s had better radar than Su-30 today, and better radar than Tranche 1/2 typhoon. So…
Looks like you clearly don’t know anything about aviation. You just never specified which Typhoon variant, which Rafale, which model of the Su-30, and which year’s F-15C.
4.5 gen just means a jet with 4th gen air frame is upgraded with 5th avionics, EW equipment, radar etc.
The dude is absolutely right that the Tranche 1/2 Typhoon is a F-15C/J MSIP II equivalent. The Eagle would have a AESA radar advantage while the Typhoon would have better maneuverability.
You’d be delusional to think Gaijin would just add a 2022 Tranche 4 Typhoon before everything else. Tranche 4 is on par with the F-15EX. And I have no freaking clue how you reached a conclusion that the Su-30 is supposed to be half a generation better than the F-15C MSIP II, considering even the latest Su-30SM2 doesn’t have AESA radar.
I was assuming an early model as it wouldn’t make sense to add in a late version of 4.5 generation aircraft first, why else would I mention a pre-2007 F-15E?
The Rafale, Eurofighter, F/A-18E/F all have RCS reduction measures built into their structure. Obviously they are not close to the RCS of fifth generation aircraft, but that doesn’t mean that stealth wasn’t a factor in their design.
I know, I was listing general abilities of 4.5 generation aircraft, and I also know the (base) Su-30 uses PESA. Regarding the “MISP II” I just missed the “MISP II” of the F-15C/J when I was reading it initially (and since the F-15J just got added, I glimpsed over it).
The pre-2007 (so an early version, like I was assuming) F-15E had just a PSP pulse-Doppler radar (AN/APG-70).
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Maybe USA gets the AESA one and other f15 operators in game get non AESA f15c. Best model of a vehicle should stay in its country of origin, unless it was used and modified for significantly longer in another countrys armed forces.
And RCS reduction is a good addition to 4th gen jets, but not a requirement that distinguishes 4th gen and 4.5 gen fighters. In your original post you also included Su-30 as a 4.5 gen fighter, yet there’s absolutely no stealth feature in the flanker design. 4.5 gen simply means a 4th airframe with modern avionics, nothing else. You’re not seriously going to argue that F-15EX and and F-16 block 70s are not 4.5 gen, are you? Things like RCS reduction and super cruise are just bonus points.
And btw, if AESA radar is a 4.5 gen requirement, then all pre-2022 Typhoon (Tranche 1-3) are excluded from the 4.5 gen list since they were using the Captor M radar.
You were saying Typhoon, Rafael, Su30s are 4.5 gen fighters and F-15C/Js are not, why are you switching the topic to the F-15E strike eagle that focuses on ground attack missions?
Base Su-30? Dude, none of the Su-30s has AESA, including the Su30SM2 that VKS took into service in the 2020s. Yet you have no problem putting it into your 4.5gen list, and saying it’s half a generation ahead of the F-15C/J despite the Eagle got AESA well over a decade ago.
Seriously, tell me what makes you think the Su30 is half a generation ahead of F-15C/J MSIP II? That thing has no stealth feature in its design, lacks AESA, worse avionics
The guy was right, the game would be ready for Typhoon when the F-15C MSIP II is added. Nothing puts Typhoon tranche 1 half a generation ahead of the Eagle.
I didn’t say requirement, I said (indirectly, so it could have caused confusion) that these were “some listed abilities,” “although 4.5 gen aircraft don’t need them to qualify,” and “then it likely will be considered a 4.5 generation aircraft.” I could have made it clearer but I was trying to suggest it is a “how many of the criteria do they have/do they meet most of the criteria?” question rather than “do they meet every single criteria?” question.
I already know this, I literally said so already (in red at bottom of post).
I already said this, but I was comparing the base F-15C/J to the Typhoon, Rafale, Su-30’s (in green at bottom of post).
I know, I already said they use PESA (in blue at bottom of post).
Because a pre-2007 F-15E (so an early/base model) is more comparable to a Su-30 than a base F-15C/J, which I have already said (in purple at bottom of post).
Again, I was talking about the base F-15C/J (in green at bottom of post).
Hybrid PESA, it’s effectively an AESA with less versatility but far higher with lower peak output.
There’s also the Uttam Mk.2 on the 30MKI
Why isn’t it? Neither aircraft features reflection-reducing measures, and you said in this very same comment that LO incorporation isn’t a 4.5 gen requirement… The introduction of PESAs instead of MSAs constitute it enough. From a modern EW suite to maneuverability and light supercruise ability, there’s nothing that shouldn’t make it a 4.5.
What is worse about its avionics in comparison to the F-15?
radar, ECM, F-15 has pretty sweet MFD’s, and with JHMCS-D (which has more than likely been tested) it gets a really nice full color HMD.
the real question is, what do flankers do better than F-15’s as far as avionics go?