Is there another feedback thread open for Nuclear thunder I can’t seem to find it?
Killing boats STILL does not give any points, kill marks, nothing!
First, I’d like to say that I think the increased Silver Lion rewards for destroying ground targets is a good change. It gives players more reasons to play CAS, instead of focusing on air combat, and I think that’s a step in the right direction.
After playing around 5-10 matches on the Red side, mostly flying Su-25s, I think the mode still needs work regarding air defense balance.
I’m currently grinding these aircraft, so I don’t have access to their full capabilities yet. In their stock configuration, playing CAS is extremely frustrating because unguided weapons are barely usable.
To use rockets or guns, you have to get very close to the target, flying low, and it exposes you to several threats at the same time :
- Trees and terrain, especially with an heavy aircraft
- IFVs, which will genuinely three-tap you once you are in range.
- Short-range SAMs, whose missiles are already difficult to evade, especially with a fully loaded aircraft
Gaining altitude before an attack run is also a no go because Rolands remain dangerous, while long-range SAM systems start launching at you almost immediately after takeoff, which forces you to take evasive action as soon as you are in the air.
On top of that, enemy players are actively hunting you. The result is what I can only describe as “Sensory Overload Thunder”. CAS pilots constantly have to monitor terrain, incoming SAM launches, RWR beeping constantly, IFVs that can delete you in 2 shots, enemy fighters, and their own attack run all at once. It becomes less killing actual ground targets than surviving the overwhelming amount of simultaneous threats, which cause an enormous amount of players crashing into trees and maneuver kills.
Even once you unlock guided munitions, it’s still difficult. Short-range SAM systems are intercepting munitions, which is understandable and on its own and I don’t think that’s necessarily a problem. The issue is that it’s yet another layer added on top of everything else.
I mean, each of these mechanics is reasonable on their own, but when they all overlap, attacking ground targets can become more frustrating than rewarding.
I understand that there needs to be some difficulty in this game mode, but the current amount of overlapping threats is just annoying.
These are just my personal impressions after some matches, mostly from the perspective of flying Su-25s (Su-25BM and SM3). I haven’t played other aircraft yet, my feedback is therefore limited to the CAS experience, but I hope it can still be useful.
I did one more full run of anti ship stuff.
results for killing 2 lutjens
you do not get point OR kill marks on the leader board (it was at 81 when I killed 2, 31 for the first kill)
the destruction of 2 boats only gave me 683SL, about 341 per ship, which again, is nothing.
destroying 3 ground units gave 8,568 which is 2,856 per kill. That is 8X the rewards for killing boats which are far harder to kill and I could only kill the Lutjens because its defenses are bad and its a weak ship. I cant even get close to california and the USS Forrestal just doesn’t sink.
AAR of the match
I will state again, doing anti-ship missions is not rewarding in both the sense of not getting SL/ RP from doing it and in the satisfaction, it is practically impossible to kill the california, kuznetsov, and Sovremenny (when I played as bluefor but havent been able too since because the UK is on REDFOR for some reason.) due to their accuracy of intercept with the missiles, CWIS, and guns. IRL these things have miss rates due to how small the munitions are but in game currently missiles will practically always hit the munition and CWIS/ cannons always hit their target UNLESS it is a slow firing gun like what the USS Forestal has, and that also only has 2 guns in the read either side unlike every other ship.
3 Likes
When shooting “EWR” (surveillance radar, I presume) HARMs lock and launch normally, but then, when about to hit the target, the missiles disappear?? Not intercepted (feed is empty), nor short of range (>2000kmh), so what is going on?
germany 12.7 que time today…
but i managed to play some games yesterday on both sides
i like the changes for the closer range sams that turn on radar earlier
only issue is now i get many more radar pings on rwr from them since players all across frontline are close to them → is it possible to only get pings from ones within range?
for planes that do not get arm it can still be very difficult to get ground kills since agms often have lock range of around 5km but by this time aa will already have launche at you from 10k means you have no real chance to lauch anything very difficult
my suggestion wuld be to reduce the amount of short range aa for exampple i dont think the andvancing forces need a aa in every convoy
mabey they can enable queing for all nations on either side this wuld be intresting since it culd show if one side has a clearly better aa setup
also it happend quite often yestarday that th missiles form ito and similar just go invisible after lauching makes very hard to doge
i wuld very like if they removed many of the trees especially around the “ouptsts”, depos, samsites, and especially airfields…
also sppotting in general is working a lot better and rewards are not that bad but ships still give very little reward destroying a carrier shuld give as much as destroying a full airfield at least since players can respawn there
idk if its still a issue but on the last runs of nuklear scalation this was a issue
since the radar is like a long antenna the missile would go for the top of the antenna and then just phase through it and then hit the ground behind it
Ah, so it’s a bug…thx.
This iteration of Nuclear Escalation is considerably improved from the last time, primarily due to the SAM system earlier radar activation mechanic, making SEAD against SHORAD SPAA actually possible. This change is both realistic and good for balance. The increase of reward for destroying ground vehicles is also very welcome from my perspective, this is exactly what we need.
There are however some issues. My main complaint is that the matches end slightly too quickly (the total tickets is too low). This happens despite the increase in total tickets, so this probably should be further increased. Another thing I noticed is that I am nearly always put into matches that have been ongoing for a long time, despite having joining already active battles disabled in options. Also, destroying ships using guided anti-ship ordnance is too difficult; the ships have dramatically went from doing nothing in defense to taking out every single munition shot from long range. The effectiveness of ship’s air defense should be slightly reduced, although the a realistic implementation of such a change should take priority instead of the idea of introducing frustrating RNG-dependent chances.
There are also important bugs which have not been addressed. CCRP with nuclear weapons is only possible with the late bracket jets AFAIK, and can’t be used on the Su-24M for example, despite it having CCRP. Another bug relating to the Su-24M is the inability to select countermeasure type to dispense: no matter which type of countermeasure is selected, the plane will always dispense both flares and chaff in an alternating sequence. These two problems may also be present on other aircraft, but I’m not sure if this is the case.
Overall, the game mode is enjoyable to play, and has many elements that are beneficial despite/contrary to some player complaints (such as the strength of anti-air defense). Please continue developing Nuclear Escalation to make positive changes like the ones that have been done here.
I assume RP rewards are low because it’s not permanent mode yet and still testing only thing I can think off
im really loving the unotchable sams!!
and everything being so close together you cant do anything!!
theres more space of the map available but that doesnt matter!!
1 Like
The current implementation is definitely the best one so far, but the AA still needs some work. There should also definitely be a few free planes with AGMs, so you its easier to deal with the AA
Only if they make AI SPAA actually avoidable. SACLOS AA shouldn’t be certain death.
Also please separate the AI of Heli PVE from nuclear escalation, too. Heli pve was already abysmal and now even more abysmal cause SPAAs are intercepting ATGM like pantsir.
6 Likes
I have this same issue with KH-25MPU on SU-39. “Hit” is max what this missles can do. Just 0 damage
OSAs are still firing while going 100kph
4 Likes
Hey so like, theres a pretty large problem in regards to the low BR bracket (10.3-12.0), specifically for the Bluefor, which currently massively lacks in anti radiation missile department compared inside of their TT’s (not counting premiums) to Redfor, with the only nations in it with any anti rad missiles being Germany and Italy. This is a situation that quite frankly needs to be rectified
I cant join!!! There are alot of Blue players
I think the current stabilization limit should be increased to around 45 km. this would let players use GPS bombs with aim points more precisely. right now, SAMs start firing the moment you get close enough or peek over a hill.
It would make ground attack runs feel better and more fair and might give planes that have lots of bombs but no ARMs (f-15E/Is)to last longer.
2 Likes
ITOs and such having 100% intercept rate is just an annoyance now.
Case and point: F-16s running let’s say 2 harms + some bombs. You are forced to fire both harms at a single ITO because the first one will get intercepted, always.
Is that justified? Maybe.
However the problem is - you can’t do anything about it. Popping and firing from al low as 5km results in the same behaviour. Firing from range results in the same behaviour. Dropping SDBs as “decoys” doesn’t work because evidently harm has a higher priority.
So in reality it’s just a flat out harm tax with no counterplay.
2 Likes
This is just going to be a poorly organised conglomeration of critiques and compliments for this iteration of this mode, some tactics I have found that work for me, and some suggestions for changes I think need to be made.
The change to the mobile SAMs to have their search radars on when you get within their range is an absolute GODSEND thank you so much. It makes it pretty easy to engage the 2S6’s in the convoys. I have found it most effective to lock the harm onto the 2S6, fly head on to it until around 6-8km or so when it launches, then wait until the missile gets close, and then launch your HARMs. It will immediately stop tracking you, and then it will usually intercept the first one (although occasionally it will get through) but it does not have enough time to get the 2nd one. You also will want to lob it upwards because head on launches from the HARMs usually miss, they need to come from top down to have a better chance at hitting. You will also want to climb a bit, up to around a km or so of altitude once you find the 2S6 for the same reason. When you do this the S300s will launch on you, but you can ignore them because you have plenty of time to get within range to fire your HARMs at the 2S6 and then descend to the floor to cut off LOS to the S300 radar.
The new GBU-53 is really nice as well. But only against stationary targets for whatever reason. When I engage the groups of dug in tanks with the stormbreaker, more times than not I will get 5/5 kills (after I have already hit the 2S6 with a HARM). But if I am hunting convoys, I am better off taking mavericks, because even though they are much less consistent with damage, they actually hit. For whatever reason, if the target is moving, the stormbreakers just hit the ground 20 feet behind them. I have tried dropping them from every angle too. From the top, front, back, and sides. And the funny thing is, I don’t have this problem with them using them for CAS in GRB, so I don’t know what gaijin has done here.
The GBU-53 also works okay at attacking the depots as well. I can hit the one 2S6 thats at the edge far away from the buildings, and thanks to the new pseudo rcs mechanic, it does not react in time. But if I try to target the spaas closer to the buildings, it just locks the buildings instead. I imagine the GBU-39 does even better because that wouldn’t be an issue, but yesterday I only had time for 3 rounds and in between all 3 I forgot to make a new custom loadout with GBU-39s. JSOWs should (and from what I hear, they do) work even better for this thanks to the even shorter detection range, but I only have 1 plane with JSOWs and I have not started its stock grind yet.
The increased rewards for doing A2G is really nice. I’m coming away from most rounds with 2-300k SL profit (with premium account) focusing only on hitting ground targets, only fighting other players when they come my way.
The spaa still needs to be balanced though, this time in favor of the red side. Now that the long range spaas turn of their radars when they detect long range ARM launches, the advantage red side had with the hypersonic ARMs that could clear out the entire blue side air defences in just a few minutes is now gone, and they are now experiencing the BUK (now SAMP/T) hell that NATO was experiencing (at least from what I hear anyways, I don’t have any redfor countries researched). The SAMP/T batteries should be replaced by Patriot batteries (SARH sams just like the S300, so they need LOS and can only engage 1 target at a time) just like the BUKs were replaced by S300s. I’m not sure how the mobile sams could be balanced though. The 2S6 is actually pretty easy to kinematically dodge as long as you aren’t point blank. In comparison, the ITO is just a mach 3.5 death needle within around 8km. I don’t really know of anything that can replace it, because as far as I know, NATO does not really have anything comparable to the 2S6. ADATS maybe? That one is faster and more maneuverable than the 2S6 still, but it would also run out of energy really fast like the 2S6.
Also, NATO is lacking in the ARM department for the lower era bracket. AGM-45 Shrike and AGM-78 STARM Pls gaijin? I want to wild wiesel in my phantom. While you’re at it, add an F-4G Wild Wiesel :D
Yes, this has happened to me a few times as well. Occasionally I will go for a gun run on a BMD only for it to pilot snipe me from 2 miles out. Or I might not even be going on a gun run, I might just be flying around the area. This is… Annoying. To say the least.
Also,
How long can I expect to wait to be able to use my Apache Guardian for nuke thunder? I feel like this would be really good at ground attack for this mode, especially with the pseudo RCS being modeled for small munitions, and the air to ground radar that can tell you where the targets are. I could pop up from behind a hill, lob a bunch of JAGMs at a convoy, and then dip before the 2S6 can get me.
And speaking of the air to ground radar, please add the proper air to ground radar modes for the planes that have them. The spotting system is very inconsistent so being able to use radar to spot non moving targets instead of having to rely on the inconsistent spotting system would be very helpful. And while on this topic, when something is unspotted, instead of just being removed from the map, it should remain on the map with a “last known” position.
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