what plane tho zero or ki or other?
What I think is happening is more technical, baked into WT prop FMs. My theory is the ratio of induced and parasitic drag to hit a top speed.
Some FM like P-39 have too little parasitic and probably induced drag.
While some other air frames, like F4U, have too much induced drag limiting their low-mid end, level acceleration.
A few (P-63) underperform, while having ^ issues.
MiG-3 has savage drag in general but also poor turn rate despite a good wing loading.
Japanese A6M’s might have too little induced vs parasitic drag.
It doesn’t come up very often since most people don’t test acceleration much. But the solution Gaijin used was to buff thrust and nerf oswald. This is why some FM’s feel “floaty”, unwilling to gain speed.
P-39 is a clear example of the opposite. The thing will do over 800 in a dive.
Gaijin has also steadily stealth nerfed Soviet prop fighter wing lift coefficients. From >1.4 to 1.3. So I wouldn’t recommend them.
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the inability to be aware doesnt mean a nation should be nerfed
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Japanese planes are known to have great turn times irl so whats your issue? also:
[quote=“Imaflyingturkey, post:2, topic:7380, full:true”]
you better not be trying to turn fight them as that is their specialty
[/quote] yep that pretty much sums up how to not fight them
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I am saying, the problems (other) players have with Japanese planes, is most easily explained by other (undertiered planes) poor FM’s.
Strange cases people mention (F4U/F6F BR) is due to inaccurate drag performance. This is a larger topic of inconsistent/poor flight models created by Gaijin.
Personally I suspect that the quality of Japanese flight models may be better (newer models seem better), while some “floaty planes” have flawed FM. Many of these FM date back to game release, and have not been updated in a decade.
This is not the fault of anyone. Some of these 3D models are old enough to drink!
The issue with Japanese planes is most likely that in a one on one situation you are f***ed, be it reality or in game. In a dog fight it’s game over.
In reality the only way out would be due to big numbers of US planes meeting big numbers of Japanese planes and hoping that a friendly boom and zoomer took out the bogey on your tail. What are you going to do otherwise?
In game that is unlikely as there are fewer numbers and little team work. Probably why Gaijin use so much copy paste when it comes to premiums.Turn a game fault into cash as always.Want to to out turn a Japanese plane playing as USA? Buy one.
All i’m going to say on the matter is this:
Do Japanese Props need to be nerfed?: N O
People keep failing for the same mistake of dogfighting Japanese Prop fighters, once people realise this Japanese Prop fighters aren’t that hard to counter though they can still be annoying to face against [Annoying to fight against doesn’t automatically =/= to overpowered]. With a few exceptions Japanese Prop fighters are all One trick ponies in the form of pure dogfighting. This applies more so Tier I to III fighters especially since Tier IV Japanese prop fighters don’t turn as well as their previous tiers focusing more on Energy Fighting [and to a lesser extent BnZ] though again they still can be countered
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It’s referring to all of them these folks don’t know how to fight the Mitsubishi nor Kawasaki Aircrafts.
You are correct on this part.
Also correct.
That is incorrect. While its main focus is turn fighting, its secondary focus is a multitude of tricks. I’d give you a quarter for every time I’ve seen anyone use it in a form that is not turnfighting and that would only be 1.
For the people that think Japanese props are too strong:
Look at this graph for a second:
This is maintained IAS speed (kmh) at climb rates (m/s) of 4 planes, at the deck.
P 39 N (br 2.7)
Ki-44-2 hei (br 3.7)
Ki-43-3 Otsu (br 4.0)
BF 109 G2 (br 4.3)
Note how climbing at 5 m/s, a US 2.7 plane beats everyone else in maintained speed. If you and your opponent start at the same altitude and same speed (in other words, same energy state), then your slow Japanese opponent will NEVER catch up to you in a shallow climb. In fact, you will gain more energy than your opponent! If a zero/ki43 tries following you aggressively (their nose is pointed at you), it will result in you going faster, and therefore, gain altitude at a greater rate, creating a potential energy difference. With enough separation, you are invulnerable, and with enough time, you secure energy advantage.
In a case where two plane’s maintained speed differences in a shallow climb are great enough, you can literally store more energy in your speed, so if you both go up, you end up stalling higher, resulting in an energy trap (you still need some separation). Examples: F8F vs all of Italy (domestic), He 162 vs all props.
I fought zeros (A6M3) in a He 100 comfortably using speed, and facing zeros (A6M5) in a He 162 is just sad.
Be aware that these curves will shift around the higher you go, depending on what your planes are tuned for.
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Speed is pretty much the best weapon against Zeros. Hence why some Italian planes and Spitifires kinda suck defeating a Zero. They are just not fast enough to gain any advantage over the insane turn rate of the Zero, unless it’s a 5.7 Spitfire.
The P-39 is distinctly unfair comparison because it has such a broken flight model if can hit 850 in a dive from 4000m and barely bleeds any speed at all. If anything it is more broken than the Zero, since it picks up so much speed in shallow dives it can catch the G-2.
Oh and it has zero lockup so you’re dead.
Japanese planes usually climb into space to catch people at low energy. If you play horizontal (speed) you can defeat them.
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The P-39 doesn’t have a broken flight model, it is just fast. The A-36 can perform slightly better in dives and shallow climbs.
It has a higher deck speed than Ki-84 and so much energy retention it feels invincible.
It has 1200 HP…
Aerodynamics and engine altitude performance differences matter.
All of these planes are faster than a Ki-84, at the deck.
oh
You have to learn Japanese plane’s weaknesses. As a Japan enjoyer, I see many players avoid turn fighting. If you avoid turnfighting with a Japanese aircraft, you get to capitalize on its weakness, for example, you can use boom and zoom (BnZ) on Japanese aircraft.
There is nothing worse than flying a slow Japanese plane against people who know to keep their speed up.
You feel like an old lady on a walker, desperately trying to keep up with the young cool kids having fun way over there…
There are multiple Japanese planes that need their BR reduced, not raised.
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Yeah but 90% of the player are not those players.
Unless WT drops a tutorial “How to defeat Japanese planes” players will continue to get shot down by them.
In a mixed team the disadvantage isn’t also not really a problem, since they are basically unbeaten when it comes to turn fights.
If you get fast or good climbing planes in the mix that can pressure the enemy, they can swoop in for the kill.
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3.7 Ki-61 is almost unkillable in good hands (not mine).
The problem with Japanese planes are as follows:
- Zeros keeping their speed surprisingly well, I had extremely difficult time diving away from A6M5 innFw 190 F8, which should accelerate way better in a dive above 450km/h, and keep its excess speed for way longer, while in fact Zero will stay on your six like you’re pulling it on a string behind you,
- Zeros pulling 13-14G at 685km/h which essentialy means you can’t realistically use compression against them, unless you’re in Fw 190 and you’re both going 750IAS - and all you’ll achieve is being able to run.
(edit: I was wrong about that - I mean, you can pull insane Gs but not at 685km/h IAS, only 685km/h SPD) - Zero and Ki-61 pulling 12G like it’s nothing because pilots are goddamn robotsz which means, if the pilot knows how to dodge, they can keep dodging till they run out of alt even if your aim is good, which may take ages
- Type 99 Mk 2 is routinely removing entire wings and tails with a single shell, so if Zero decides to force a head-on, he has to hit your Corsair/Fw 190/P-47 once, you have to hit him several times, and Zero has the ability to pull head-ons out of his ass. 3.7 Ki-61 is also super deadly due to 4x HE-slinging 12,7mm, but to a lower extent.
Japese planes are oftej not great, but they are royal PITA to fight against.
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