Naval mode is finally dead

Game Discussion Arcade Battle
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854

Maybe you misunderstood my phrasing. When I wrote “work” I wasn’t referring to availability, but game feel and functionality. If there was simply no friction caused by the change at all, there wouldn’t be multiple threads on the forums of people asking for the changes to be reverted.

Was it good on all distances and courses? No, it was not perfect, but game knowledge supplemented this. Besides, the new system is objectively quite bad for many distances and courses (I think most players in this thread would argue it is much worse at this than the previous system) and since less player agency is allowed in the new system, skilled players can no longer fire outside of the auto-generated solution to hit targets that the auto-generated solution was not ideal for. Furthermore, the new system further removes control from the players in that their cursor no longer directs the orientation of the guns, which prevents them from pre-planning approaches, turret angling and other tactics that require independent control of the guns.

Was it good for newbies? That is a good question. The main issue is that the naval tutorials did not explain how to lead a shot at all, and only demonstrated how to fire at stationary targets. It seems like the main goal of the change was actually to align the controls with the scenario presented in the tutorial-- there is no need to lead, it does so for you. The old system probably would not have alienated players if it had been better explained to them.

So you tell me, is this the best solution? Instead of changing the tutorial to better explain the existing game mechanics, Gaijin was right to completely change the mechanics and alienate players who learned and understood the previous system?

You’re literally pulling up people’s stats. That should have no place in this conversation, and you know it.

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855

Why not? Why i shouldn’t? It’s a competitive game don’t you know?

What? Try to explain on examples.

Double what?

You didin’t answer on remain questions.

856

Do you have that weak memory that we need to discuss this for a 5th time?

Nahhh you just wish that you will change the topic and nobody will realize.

Are you answering? Nop, you just post irrelevant stuff and when cornered pompous SS

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857

Pal, i have enough experience to tell what’s wrong with this system.
Do you really think that i only tried with the Syonan? I could say the same with the french navy as well.

And looking down on others is not the smartest idea to convince others that you are right by the way.

The new system please you alright, but many more dislike it and it’s not because they are bad.
Others players explained why in long, wide and crosswise but you keep denying everything and implying that we are more or less bad players.

If you are really doing that, it’s called spying on people.
It can be seen as a toxic behavior and an admission that you’re short of good arguments.
Again, not the smartest way to convince others that you are right.

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858

Are you good? Why you can’t handle new system then?

Spying? It’s open data, you don’t like transparency?

So being honest is toxic nowadays?

859

Do you read the posts or you just have pre desided that everyone that does not agree with you is a “bad” player?
It is not about GOOD - BAD performance!!

Being in denial and blaming everyone that does not agree with you is.

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860

I just want to remind that two years ago (in May 2023) Content Creators were asked to send their questions to the devs. One CC asked the following question (which was actually a suggestion):

Q. I would like to see if WT naval arcade could be made a bit more arcadey to attract more people to the mode, mainly by making rangefinding faster so it might be more fun to play. Maybe also add what ammo to shoot at which target so people have more of an Idea when to use AP or HE and SAP.

  • We agree here - We’ll try to do something to make the mode more approachable, and will likely start with rangefinding.

This is where things started to go wrong very quickly. The devs made a lot of changes to make especially Naval Arcade (but also Naval in general) easier to play. In theory this supposed to attract more players to this game mode, but I only saw the opposite. Two or three years ago, I never had problems with waiting times in Naval Arcade queue. After they started making things easier and easier I only saw more and more players leaving this game mode. We recently got more AI bots added to Naval battles, because eventually waiting times became a huge issue.

It looks like the devs still think that the problem of Naval is that this game mode is too hard to play. So they keep adding changes to make the game mode easier and more accessible, and they hope that new players will join in at some point.

Like I said, in my opinion this is a wrong direction and it has the opposite effect. Some changes, even if in my opinion unnecessary, are not a big deal (like the camera position changes, shell penetration indicators, ability to control vessels with a destroyed bridge etc). But many changes were just too much (making fire control calculations faster, eventually almost instant, FCS interface that tells you exactly where your shells landed, now this whole new aiming system that automatically aims for the player). I don’t even remember how many damage model changes we had over the last two years, and having to learn it all over again is a terrible feeling to me.

The funny thing is that none of these changes attracted more players. But because of so many bad changes and the devs messing with the game mode basically whole the time, more and more players realize that continuing to play in this mode makes no sense. There is no stability, there is no break, it is difficult to enjoy something that is constantly and dramatically changing.

I dread to even think what stupid ideas they are working on now that will be added to Naval in the next major updates, to make this game mode even easier. Well, I left Naval Arcade, so it’s not really my problem anymore. In fact, if they made similar changes to any other game mode I play (Air Arcade, Ground Arcade, Air Realistic) I would have left it as well. So I’m not sure if that’s a good direction for the game, but I’m not making these decisions.

I just wanted to remind that this is a long-planned strategy by the devs that was intended to attract more players to the game. Because I see some people started thinking that just one suggestion that was rejected by the community and never even passed to the devs caused all our issues, but that’s clearly not the case.

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861

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I think he’s literally been trolling the entire thread. We’d probably be better off ignoring him

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862

I’ve not checked these threads for a while now and I’m almost surprised he’s still active in them, constantly trying to argue with and insult everybody. Why anybody still gives him their time of day I don’t know. Just ignore him and he’ll get bored. Maybe he’ll go back to using the aimbots he vehemently defends.

On another note, I’d like to get excited about Vanguard and potentially the other ships from the leak lists but really it’s all just meaningless and wasted without also reverting the aiming changes. Really reverting the aiming changes is all I’d be looking forward to in this update, as any other naval addition is pointless to me and all the new air content is just for top/high tier these days which I don’t care about. I don’t play ground either.

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864

You got one mistake in all of that longpost, you assume that changes drove players out of mode, but in realty it opposite it’s absents of changes that drove them - in last two yeas you got no maps(except reserve level ones), no drastic gameplay changes, no long waited bugfixes, only adding of new models and some minor UI changes which not even deserve major patch, devs ignoring the mode is what drove players away, people bored and lost all hope(playing same disbalance maps, same boats with same rules and same goals and same objectives). Look at the NRB they lost even more players that arcade in percentages in this years. I got my solutions and proposals how to fix and attract people to navy, 67 of them and still counting and previous proposals and tons of bugreports, but what you got?

You got people who messing up statistic numbers to prove their points, you got characters who easy call opponent a gaslighter or troll than bring proof or arguments to their statements, you got likes and polls for angry mob, you became soft and have no consolidation(RU community at least have two NRB discord communities one about game ⚓StarPom и мёртвый флот ⚓ and other about bugs and game mechanics War Thunder Fleet Enhancement), you got hundreds of new vehicles request in proposals and zero to nothing gameplay changes proposals, where nobody votes and discuss when RU community have the opposite. You got new marathon system which hurt all modes bad, forcing players to play one mode and ignore others and leaving no time to rest from it, if you want them all. People leave cause they are bored and disappointed not cause some “changes”

So what “you” gonna do? Whine on forms about bring old time back? Even now you look back not forward and that is the problem.

“Just ignore him and he go away” is what happened to naval. You ignored state of naval and it went away from you.

ps. That was my proposal too, btw.

865

I guess most people don’t understand that forum is a place where you can share your opinions. But it doesn’t mean that every opinion has to be correct.

For example, if someone says that Naval is in terrible shape, and then another person comes and says that Naval is in great shape after this aiming change, it’s not the players job to convince that person that Naval is actually having serious problems. It’s completely fine to have opposite opinion. Especially some players don’t mind (maybe even enjoy) fighting AI bots, so they can see changes like adding more AI bots to Naval as very positive.

I hope that everyone who reads this topic has their own brain, can read all the arguments and draw their own conclusions, maybe even have a completely different opinion and share it. It’s fine, that’s how discussion works.

Unfortunately, this topic turned into a lot of players trying to persuade one to their opinion. We have well over 800 posts here and like half of them are useless and not even on the topic. This is “Naval mode is finally dead” topic and while I disagree with this statement (it’s not dead dead yet), Naval is definitely going into this direction with less and less players playing it.

We have StatShark nowadays, so we can use these stats to follow the number of players and it just doesn’t look good for Naval.

BTW: You can check out Bruce’s excellent summary of StatShark stats here:

This really helps understanding Naval situation, especially when you compare it to the popularity of other game modes. Looking at these stats, are you really surprised that the devs are trying so many changes to possibly attract more players to Naval game mode?

Like I said before, in my opinion they are doing this poorly and they simply went the wrong way. But this is their current strategy and player opinions doesn’t matter for them. They want to attract new players, they don’t care about old players, which they are clearly losing with this strategy. The only question is, where are these new players?

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866

last time i played naval was right before it became an inclusive mobile game. I tried to use the Murmansk and every game was 6.0. Having my entire team be farmed by a Mikuma was enough for me to stop trying to play.

Gaijin forcing people to buy premium ships by br compression has gone incredibly overboard.

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867

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man those bots…

Bloody shooting carriers too now
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868

Is it one of you guys?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1kt2gir/gaijin_if_youre_going_to_start_pushing_naval_you/

869

Changes are always welcome if they are good and improve gaming experience.

In this case the concensus is
1)Bad changes
2)hasty changes
3)un tested changes
4) complete ignoranse of well known issues like spawns etc

Best comment in the reddit post

So basically… World of Warships… but somehow aiming in WoWs is more skillful than it is now in WT Arcade.
Got it.

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871

I stopped playing naval after they reworked the aiming system 2 or 3 years ago… I cant hit sh*t with the new system and never touched it again. They indeed ruined the mode with this new system

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872

Nice Don Quixote reference.

873

Seems like it.

874

For me, playing naval is more of slow play than action filled Ground arcade. Naval should be more about managing a ship and juggling repair, aiming and maneuvering all at the same time. Naval Blue water will never be action filled unless you’re in a slug fest with another BB at close range. Therefore making it easier makes essentially more boring. Players need agency. If you make choices, there should be rewards and consequences. This is why WT direction of naval is misguided.

Unfortunately, even if Gaijin finally realizes it made a mistake, someone will have to admit to this error and be berated in the company, and that is a very hard thing to do. Hence they will try to do the MSM thing and deny it’s a problem, say people like it, say it’s not that bad, stop talking about it and hope players give up on protesting, introduce an even better system (i.e. quietly revert the change).

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875

Technically speaking, this is true, some players are happy with these changes. Every change will be supported by some players.

I remember when the devs lowered the number of assists in Ground battles (which reduced players score and RP/SL rewards), there were still players happy about this change, because according to them, the game is now “more realistic” with less assists. Don’t ask me how they came to that conclusion, I have never understood this. But they were literally happy that they will get now lower scores and less rewards in Ground battles!

When the devs removed rank 1 premium vehicles from the Battle Pass and replaced them with the premium time, the reason given was that some players didn’t like low rank premium vehicles anyway, so now everyone have something useful instead (10 days of the premium time). You can read this conversation here:

Spoiler

Unfortunately, I have not received an answer to the proposition in my last post. And of course we never got that low rank premium vehicle back in the BP.

I’m sure they used this argument just as an excuse. Less vehicles in the BP means less work for the devs. But the fact is that if they want to explain some change, the easiest way to do this is to tell that “some players” wanted this. They don’t have to lie, this is basically always true.

I’m sure that if the devs proposed to double the RP required to research vehicles in the game, even if 99.9% of players would disagree with it, there would be 0.1% of players wanting this change. Possibly because some players don’t have problems with money in real life, so with this change such players would get even bigger advantage over other players who have to account for every cent and can’t use their money in the game.

Basically, any change can be justified by saying “some players wanted it”. It seems that Gaijin is one of those companies that doesn’t want to admit their failures. They almost never revert changes they make, even if those changes are generally hated by the community.

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