Might as well add an option to swap guidance like IR / SAL / GPS
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looks at Ukraine where top attack missiles have eaten that like candy
I mean… there is a reason why the T90 has no spares left in the yards and the Russian armed forces is down to about 2k left in the yards ranging from T-54s to the T-80s. Those drones to the top have done a LOT of work, even through ERA.|
post-note because this got flagged “by the community” It’s factual evidence to bring up how effective top-down attack munitions have been. If this is an issue, then every single post that mentions WW2 weaponry statistics and post-battle analysis needs to be flagged as well. OSINT data shows Russia’s tank reserves shrinking but far from exhausted
have done basically nothing, as most of the machinery was lost to sidefire. Even drones dont ever attack its turret from the front. If anything, its M1s and 2a4s that dont have ANY protection from top-attack, basically showing how poor designers thinking is. They own top attack measures and havent protected machines from ones.
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Early in the war they were used a lot. And realistically, the missiles we use in game would go through the front at the angles they attack if they were top-down attack as there’s far less to punch through from the top than frontally like what most missiles hit with.
Russia uses TANDEM rounds v top attack missiles. NATO doctrine was built around that. On top of that (pun intended), a top-down attack is far more useful against RU tanks as the ammo is also hit, leading to a catastrophic destruction of the tank. At best with NATO tanks, you get two crew members and the tank leaves the combat zone. There has been a big focus on active defense for Abrams though with Leopards getting composite on the top for about the last decade and is evident with the Leopard 2A8 having active protection integrated already with the 2A7 having the capability to have it installed.
so hull-positioned ammo is hit with hitting the roof of turret of WELL-PROTECTED AGAINST ROOF ATTACKS tank? Wha?
My believe is the Top-attack munitions were inveted before USSR started protecting their machinery against top attacks.
fair ehough, tho still believing that USSR wont develop such systems, thus not protecting their roofs to this day, sounds ridiculous.
Them composite slaps on the roof of 2a6-ish machines are intended to protect from the front attack also, not top attack.
even in game it has 900mm of pen and it is tandem same ERA blocks will save the drive if the ammo dont go off, the gunner and commander are dead
Fair enoug
Arent you guys confusing top attack type like TOW-2B with the top attack trayectory as spikes/hellfires missiles?
For example, Javelins have a penetration capability of 600+mm of RHA and the TWO 2B is a dual EFP system to counter ERA (which is funnily enough not modeled in War Thunder as it’s treated as one penetrator with extra pen, hence why top attack EFP sucks in War Thunder. I’ve bug reported it and got hit with “it’s a game convention” from the forum moderator with no plans to fix it TOW 2B is not modeled properly // Gaijin.net // Issues). Even RELIKT ain’t gonna do anywhere near enough to halt the EFP(s) from that. The only real counter to that would be an active protection system to intercept prior to detonation.
The Soviets/Russia did this weird thing of putting it with their mortars/artillery. They have the Kitolov-2M, KM-8 Gran and the Krasnopol. To be fair, top down attacks are far more expensive to produce and maintain versus just making something penetrate more, which is where they focused like with the Kornet having 1,300+mm of penetration and a tandem warhead. I’m more surprised it took NATO so long to integrate active protection systems into their vehicles, but I guess everyone is struggling with that seeing how Russian designed their Arena and Drozd systems decades ago and is still relatively uncommon.
It was mainly just talking about top attack in general. Gaijin has failed to properly model this mechanic (as it IS a hard counter to Russian/Chinese tank design from its creation IRL). Realistically, if we had top-down attack AGMs, it should slam through the ERA most Russian tanks have up until Relikt IF Gaijin modeled multi-layer ERA and did tandem/two-stage ATGMs properly instead of just making it act as one penetrator with a higher value. Fun fact, the TOW-2B is treated as a chemical penetrator instead of a kinetic penetrator like it should be, which is why it struggles hard against vehicles with ANY sort of top protection. It also doesn’t have the look down seeker like it should and instead of a 3 meter proxy detonation like it’s an A-A missile.
No issue for spike. Only counter is APS that scan from above. Not all aps like arena.
No, we discuss widely all that hits the roof
Aren’t those ERA blocks literally intended to protect against old RPGs from windows above and DPICM artillery warheads and not proper top attack weapons?
Nothing short of a hard-kill APS is going to stop a Javelin/Akeron MP/Spike, and BILL 2/TOW-2B are also capable of defeating top mounted ERA.
Basically those things
are considered enough to stop all in-use top attack armanment. At least that what the govt says.
Tho as i know the roof protection isnt made to protect just from an RPG. Kontank-1 was
gaijin thinks spikes are way too overpowered, so higher BR
I would wait and see before deciding those extended roof cages are fully capable of performing the job of a hard-kill APS. Especially considering the potential disadvantages of having all that heavy ERA up there.
It looks to me like that has one or two layers of ERA, which could provide protection against top attack weapons like Spike or Akeron. But that depends on the ERA, the thickness of the backplate and if the standard roof ERA is also still there.
Also as demonstrated by the game (and IRL to a certain extent) just having ERA without the proper angle won’t stop high powered HEAT jets from penetrating the armor beneath. It is entirely possible that the standard tandem warhead of 1000mm penetration behind ERA can brute force through that and the ERA+armor below due to the lacking angle.
True, thats we need to see. Tho as much as i know by the news, Javelins stopped being widely used when those were introduced, for reasons.
90Ms also have those, the Relikt.