- Yes
- Maybe
- Unsure
- I don’t she should be added to the game
- WW1 Goeben (stays German and is exactly like Moltke as built)
- Yavuz 1941 (Is faster than before, Gets AA guns but is light, loses some 150mm guns and some internal 8.8cm guns in the rear of the ship)
- Yavuz 1945 (Same as earlier post war configuration but gets much more AA guns)
- Unsure
- I said no to the last question
Notes
- Every point in the history section of the ship changes that section will refer to that name for the Goeben i.e. Goeben, Yavuz Sultan Selim, or Yavuz
- A new dedicated background section might be made later on as an update to the suggestion from the old forums but for the meantime will be left unchanged
Background and History
Spoiler
The Goeben
SMS Goeben is the second ship of the Moltke class Battlecruiser, itself the successor to the Von Der tan class present in war thunder. She ordered in early April 1909, laid down in late august 1909 and was launched 2 years later in late March 1911 and was finally commissioned in July of 1912.
Unlike most German Battlecruisers or Dreadnoughts she would serve separate from the high seas fleet as apart of the German Mediterranean fleet which consisted of Goeben herself and the light cruiser SMS Breslau. They would be based in the Adriatic Sea with their home port being Pola otherwise know as Pula, in the Austro Hungarian Empire or modern day Croatia in order to exert their presence. The 2 vessels would then visit multiple ports during the First and Second Balkan wars, following this Germany high command planned to have Goeben finally return home, switching her with her sister ship SMS Moltke however this never came to be thanks to the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria what made this impossible thanks to the high Tensions courtesy of the assassination. As a result German engineers had to travel to the Austro Hungarian empire to Pola in order to give the Goeben some much needed engine maintenance, after that in order to prevent getting trapped in the Adriatic Sea she along with Breslau would move to the port of Messina in Italy.
World War I
As the First World War Goeben went out to attack French shipping as well as doing shore bombardment on the shores of a French African colony along with Breslau who was bombarding a different part of the colony. This would not last long and German naval command against the Kaisers own orders, gave the Goeben and Breslau order to sail to Constantinople in the Ottoman Empire or Modern day turkey however they first needed to refuel due to running low on coal and went to Messina to refit their coal bunkers. On the way to Messina the 2 ships would encounter the British battlecruisers HMS Indefatigable and Indomitable however never opened fire as the British had not made a war decleration yet so instead passed each other with the 2 British battlecruisers then turning around following to Goeben but failed to keep up as they themselves need engine maintenance. One thing that cannot be overstated during this encounter that Goeben was very lucky as the declaration of war between Germany and the UK would occur hours after the battlecruisers had encountered each other. After reaching the port of Messina and restocking their coal they would set sail for the Ottoman empire, by this point the declaration of war had occurred and their was now a 3rd British battlecruiser, the Inflexible along with other British vessels now hunting the 2 German lone vessels but made a mistake as they believed they would try to re enter the Adriatic Sea when they were going to the Ottoman Empire. By the time the British vessels realized their real destination at which point the German vessels were already half way there and as a result the British ordered every ship in the area along with some French ones after the Goeben. Once the German ship arrived negotiations would begin for the safe passage of the vessels and by the time they were given clearance to pass through it is said that the smoke from the British cruisers were visible over the horizon. As a result in order for them to gain clearance since the Ottoman Empire was not at war yet decided to circumvent neutrality requirements “by means of a fictitious sale.” and before the Germans could convey their response on the ottoman offer, the ottomans “had purchased the ships for 80 million Marks” on august 11th, 1914 and would be ceremonially commissioned into the ottoman navy on august 16th. The German commander of the Goeben, Souchon had accept the offer to command the Turkish fleet. The ship would then be renamed along with Breslau to Yavuz Sultan Selim (Goeben) and Breslau was renamed Midilli, they would still have German crews, and best of all that is best worded as the wikipedia states it: “their German crews donned Ottoman uniforms and fezzes.”
Life as The Yavuz Sultan Selim- the definitely not still “German”
As the now Yavuz Sultan Selim, Goeben would begin operations agains Imperial Russia on October 29th 1914 in the Black Sea while once again the Ottoman empire was not at war yet against Sevastopol in order to force the Ottomans to join the Germans in the war. She would receive a 10 inch round to her funnel what failed to detonate and would receive 2 more non damaging hits, on her way back to friendly waters she would encounter a Russian minelayers that would end up scuttling itself with the escorting Russian destroyer taking damage from the Yavuz Sultan’s secondary battery. Following this on November 1st Russia would declare war on the Ottoman Empire as a result. In order deal with the Yavuz Sultan the Russians decided to consolidate the entire Black Sea fleet in order to prevent ships being picked off by the superior “Ottoman” ship as they lacked (and by lack I mean none) any Dreadnoughts or Battlecruisers available to challenge the Yavuz Sultan. As a result the Yavuz Sultan along with the Midilli would engage the entire Russian Black Sea fleet which consisted of 5 pre dreadnoughts, 3 light cruisers, and 12 destroyers as they were returning from another bombardment mission on November 18th in the Battle of Cape Sarych, this resulted in 1 of the Russian pre dreadnoughts being damaged with Yavuz Sultan also receiving some damage in return with both sides withdrawing their forces. Following this Yavuz Sultan would help escort troop transports as well as more shore bombardment until on December 26th, 1914 hit a mine followed causing a 540 sq ft hole by a second mine causing a 690 sq ft hole while off the coast of Bosphorus, the issue with repairing the Yavuz Sultan was that their was no dry dock in the Ottoman Empire that could handle the Yavuz Sultan. In order to deal with the damage the Yavuz Sultan was put in a metal cofferdam in which they repaired the holes caused by the mine by filling them with concrete which would only last on 7 years.
Following this in 1915 the still damaged Yavuz Sultan would sortie from Bosphorus in order to cover friendly cruisers from the Russian fleet on January 28th and February 7th, following this she would try to escort the friendly cruisers again including the protected cruiser Mecidiye which struck a mine resulting in the cancellation of another attempt at shore bombardment. Following this the Yavuz Sultan and the very familiar Midilli would once again encounter some of the Russian Black Sea fleet forces what failed to result in anything.
On April 25 which was the same day as the landings taking place at Gallipoli Russian naval forces would bombard the fortifications located at Bosphorus, 2 days later the Yavuz Sultan along with 2 pre dreadnoughts would show up in the area to pass through the straits in order to deal with the landing in Gallipoli and would shortly engage HMS Queen Elizabeth and then fall back behind cover since they stood no chance agains a more modern 15 inch armed British super dreadnought, Yavuz Sultan would then try it again 5 days later but would be spotted by a British pre dreadnought who go 5 shots on the Yavuz Sultan before it was gone again. Following this the Yavuz Sultan on May 1st would be sent to go find the Russian naval forces bombarding the forts in Bosphorus and went all the way up to Sevastopol only to find nothing. On May 10th she would encounter 2 Russian pre dreadnoughts once again with the Yavuz Sultan once again receiving little damage from the outdated Russian ships and set course to Bosphorus being perused by light Russian forces. Following this Yavuz Sultan would have some of her 8.8 cm guns removed as well as 5.9 inch guns, and her familiar friend the Midilli struck a mine in mid July pulling it off escort duty resulting in the Yavuz Sultan used for escorting however during this time she would try to engage 3 Russian destroyers who were harassing Ottoman coal ships what eventually saw her off convoy duty. By the end of the summer that year the Russians would also finally complete something that actually stand up to the Yavuz Sultan with the dreadnoughts Imperatritsa Mariya and Imperatritsa Ekaterina Velikaya making its situation more difficult than it already was.
As the situation got worse in 1916 the Yavuz Sultan would encounter the dreadnought Imperatritsa Ekaterina and tried disengage however due to constant use and lack of proper maintenance the Yavuz Sultan had difficulty outrunning the better condition and still new Russian dreadnought. Following this she would finally get some repairs to her propeller shafts and would mainly support the land campaign as the coal situation was getting worse what resulted in the suspension of the Yavuz Sultan and Midilli until the Armistice between Russia and the central powers occurred which allowed for the coal situation to improve.
In 1918 Yavuz Sultan along with the Midilli was sent out to divert British attention away from Palestine and would engage and sink 2 British monitors and then was sent off to engage a British pre dreadnought that was preparing to make steam but on the way Midilli would strike 7 mines and sink while the Yavuz Sultan would end up striking 3 mines and would beach herself, taking advantage of the moment British air service aircraft would attack the ship and the royal naval would send a submarine to finish the Yavuz Sultan only to find she had been towed away by a older German pre dreadnought that in fact was sold to turkey when they were not at war, and once again the Yavuz Sultan would be put in a cofferdam from early august to mid October. Finally after years “serving” as apart of the Ottoman navy Germany finally officially transfer ownership of the ship to the Ottomans and was then to be transferred over to the British as apart of war reparations, she would have probably then suffered the same fate as the many other German dreadnought that would be interned at scapa flow however event swung in the Yavuz Sultan’s favor as the Turkish revolution had begun and once the Turkish revolutionaries won had discarded the entire treaty keeping the Yavuz Sultan, they would then shorten her name to the Yavuz.
Post war
The now Yavuz would in 1920 be made as the centerpiece (as if it wasn’t already) of the Turkish navy as apart of a attempt to refurbish the poor Yavuz and by refurbish they would leave the ship in İzmit for 6 year, neglecting it even more with only 2 boilers operational, unable to steer under her own steam, and still had damage that needed much repairing from battle damage that was only temporarily fixed. But after 6 years being left to rot Turkey would finally get a dry dock that could handle her however her condition was so bad that she was unable to handle rough seas. It would take another 3 years from 1927 to 1930 for the Yavuz to finally get the maintenance she so desperately needed and deserved with a few accidents occurring that would delay the repairs however work would speed up after the workers were motivated when the greeks had a naval exercise off the Turkish coast.
Once repaired she had received a new boilers that ended up driving her speed past the speed she ran at on her original sea trials, removed 2 of her 15 cm guns, new French fire control systems, one thing however was not improved on was her armor even after the lesson of Jutland had been implemented in the other navies, as a response the Soviets would transfer a dreadnought and light cruiser to the black sea due to her being brought back into service. She would then take Turkish prime minister to Istanbul as well as the sea of Iran to Samsun in 1933 and would receive another refit in 1938. The Turkish navy had planned to keep her in service until 1945 in which she would be replaced by a new battleship however the Second World War broke out meaning no one would build a ship for Turkey, during the war she would have her AA armament upgraded with 4 new 8.8 cm flak guns, 10 40mm guns, and 4 20mm guns however she like many other ships during the second world war recognized that the need for stronger AA armaments was needed and the number of AA guns would increase to 22 40mm guns and 24 20mm guns.
In 1946 the Yavuz would be at Istanbul when the USS Missouri and 2 destroyers visited in order to return the Turkish ambassador and would get to exchange a 19 gun salute.
Finally after 48 around years of service in 1950 the Yavuz was decommission in 1950 and would be stricken from the naval register in 1954, before this however in 1952 as Turkey joined nato she would be given the hull number B70 as apart of the nato reserve fleet.
The final part of this ship life came in 1963 when the Turkish government offered West Germany the Yavuz to be returned to them as a museum ship but quite sadly declined, she would be sold for scrapping in 1971, taken to the breakers yard in 1973 and 3 years later the work on scrapping her would be complete, leaving the USS Texas as the only Dreadnought type ship to remain from WW1 and the last true battlecruiser in the world.
Specifications:
(Based of the Moltke in WW1)
Displacement:
Design: 22,979 t (22,616 long tons)
Full load: 25,400 t (25,000 long tons)
Length:186.6 m (612 ft 2 in)
Beam:29.4 m (96 ft 5 in)
Draft:9.19 m (30 ft 2 in)
Installed power:
24 × water-tube boilers
51,289 shp (38,246 kW)
Propulsion:
4 × Screw propellers
4 × Parsons turbines
Speed: Design: 25.5 knots (47.2 km/h; 29.3 mph)
Range:4,120 nmi (7,630 km; 4,740 mi) at 14 knots (26 km/h; 16 mph)
Complement:
1053 to 1355
Armament: (based on the Moltke herself)
10 × 28 cm (11 in) /50 SK primary guns
(810 rounds in total)
Fire rate of 3 shells per minute
(Elevation limited to 13.5 Degrees but increased to 16 Degrees in 15 and to 22.5 Degrees in 1918)
12 × 15 cm (5.9 in) secondary guns
(1800 rounds total, 150 per gun)
12 × 8.8 cm (3.5 in) guns
(sources indicate they are hull mounted and not flak guns as it mentions them being in the same kind of mounts found in the von der tan)
4 x 553mm Torpedo tubes with 12 carried in total, 4 for each tube
(one front, one at the rear, on on each broadside)
Armor:
Belt: 101.6 to 271.78 mm (4 to 10.7 in)
Barbettes: 30.48 to 228.6 mm (1.2 to 9.1 in)
Bulkhead: 101.6 to 203.2 mm to (4 to 8 in)
Gun turrets: 60.96 to 230 mm (2.1 to 9 in)
Deck: 25 to 76 mm (1 to 3 in)
Post war specifications: (Only includes changes)
Displacement: (Not full load, not given): 23,100 t (22,700 long tons)
Beam: 10 cm (4 in)
Length:186.1 m( 610 ft 4 in)
speed: 28.4 knots (52.6 km/h; 32.7 mph) (does not say if this is the improved top speed but it was the only one I found showing a number for her with a higher top speed)
1941 Refit
10 × 28 cm (11 in) /50 SK primary guns (5 x 2)
10 × 15 cm (5.9 in) secondary guns (casemate) (10 x 1) (Note a few sources state her having 8 by this point but multiple images seem to contradict that)
8 × 8.8 cm (3.5 in) C/09 guns (casemate) (8 x 1)
6 x 88mm C/13 L/45 FlaK guns (single mounts) (6 x 1)
12 x 40mm/2-pdr QF Mk VII (single mounts) (12 x 1)
6 x 20mm/65 C/30 (single mounts) (6 x 1)
2 x 553mm Torpedo tubes with 6 carried, 4 per tube (front and rear torpedo tubes have been removed)
1945 Refit
10 × 28 cm (11 in) /50 SK primary guns (5 x 2)
10 × 15 cm (5.9 in) secondary guns (casemate) (10 x 1) (Note a few sources state her having 8 by this point but multiple images seem to contradict that)
8 × 8.8 cm (3.5 in) C/09 guns (casemate) (8 x 1)
10 x 40mm Bofors Mk I and III (single mounts) (10 x 1)
24 x 20mm Oerlikon Mk II (single mounts) (24 x 1)
6 x 8.8cm L/45 flak guns (single mounts) (6 x 1)
2 x 553mm Torpedo tubes with 6 carried, 4 per tube (front and rear torpedo tubes have been removed)
Sources:
Spoiler
Moltke-class battlecruiser - Wikipedia
SMS Goeben (Yavuz Sultan Selim) Battlecruiser Warship
naval encyclopedia - warships and naval warfare from antiquity to this day
SMS Goeben | laststandonzombieisland (where the higher speed count was found)
SMS Goeben – Yavuz Sultan Selim battlecruiser – Battleships & Knights (blueprints found here)
Just for the battle of Cape Sarych:
Image sources:
Spoiler
naval encyclopedia - warships and naval warfare from antiquity to this day (for all Goeben post war images in the post war section)