More than R-77 ground launch lol
From the very little information that even exists of it, only 12km range from the ground. (granted its grid fins make low speed launches with the thing a terribad idea)
I guess december this year gajin could add AIM-120A, AIM-120B & AIM-120C-3 AMRAAM, Rb.99, PL-12, R-77 and MICA EM
Its gonna be interesting to see how they implement it tbh.
My prediction:
- In general: Borked seeker still suffering massively from multipath
- AIM-120A/B/RB.99: Seeker more borked than average
- AIM-120C: not coming yet
- PL-12: substantially nerfed in general (to be more in line with early ARH)
- R-77: massively overperforming in sub/transonic launches, particularly at low alt, because gaijin hasnt bothered modeling the unusual drag profile of grid fins
- MICA EM: Slightly better pull than the AMRAAM and even the R-77, but not quite as much as it should be able to irl.
Planes that get the fox 3’s:
- US: F-16C
- Germany: F-4F ICE (DoA)
- Russia: MiG-29 SMT
- Britain: Tornado F.4 (DoA) and/or GR.7(?)
- Japan: EJ Kai (DoA, not even sure if it can get them?)
- Italy: F-16ADF or AV-8B+
- Isreal: F-16D Barak and/or Kurnass 2000
- China: J-8F
- France: M2K-5F
- Sweden: Ja37D
The nations with the DoA planes like Germany, Britain, Japan, and Maybe Italy are DoA because they used Fox 3’s on gen 3+ jets instead of only Gen 4’s like France or the Russians and instead of taking this into account, gaijin decided to add them to “all nations at the same time” which is immediately advantageous to a nation like Russia that started with putting them on 4th gen jets.
There is also the possibility of seeing some weird one off stuff for russia tho like the MiG-23-98 with R-77 and R-73, but the effect would be mostly the same because the MiG-23 eats the F-4/AV-8/Tornado for breakfast in WT
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My theory is they’ll add the SHAR FA.2 with AMRAAM (most likely also DOA) since they added the largely redundant FRS.1 early to the TT to set up the RN Sea Harriers.
Only AIM-7E/F/M. Japan started using FOX-3s with F-15J and F-2.
There is no F.4 there is however various F.3 improvement programs such as CSP/AOP/FSP check the Tornado thread for those definitions.
And GR.7 never carried more than Sidewinders and ASRAAM (trialed). No second gen British Harrier had a radar. Only Sea Harrier FRS.1 and FA.2 both first gen with the FA.2 having a better engine and slightly different wing. But even then only FA.2 carried AMRAAM.
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oh interesting, curious to see what they do then cuz I doubt JP would be the only one to get the F-15. Maybe they’ll give an F-2 with a badly nerfed radar then…
Thanks for the info! I’m not super well versed in brit planes tbh
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No worries, you know where to ask if you need some info.
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neat predictions (PL-12 one is prob dead on lmao) but I think its gonna be kinda reversed with the MICA EM, its gonna have great pull thanks to TVC but itll probably be screwed up in terms of managing that TVC, like using TVC when its not necessary for longer ranged shot which long term harms energy in terminal
Possible, not sure though. I think in general their power (all missiles) is gonna be toned down from irl, partly to handhold players (like the hypercrutch that is the current state of multipath) that couldnt be bothered to actually learn to do BVR combat, and partly due to be more in line with eachother across the board. I dont think theyd give france a HOBS capable 50g+ missile with AMRAAM range and a similar seeker yanno?
I think the only one that will overperform is the R-77 tho, simply due to the fact that its drag curve is non-standard when compared to all the other missiles, and I doubt gaijin would actually bother to model it or allow russia to have a missile that is significantly kinematically inferior to the AIM-7M when launched at subsonic speeds. The R-77 is likely to be modelled with its maximum range in mind at very high alt/speed and given the same cookie cutter drag profile every other missile will get, making it massively over perform at lower launch speeds while performing realistically at altitudes and speeds nobody actually fight at in WT.
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R-77 will get same code as other ARHs thats a given, though I dont think it will significantly overperform since while yes at lower subsonic speeds the grid fins provide higher drag especially while maneuvering, they also provide significantly lower drag at high speeds so a higher average velocity and overall unless launched at ludicrously low speeds the R-77’s range will probably be fine its flight profile will be wrong but the overall average range should be fine if it does overperform it wouldnt really be out of any real margin of errors like how gaijan calculates drag and range based off the rear aspect range of missiles which leads to pretty much all missiles overperforming a little in terms of head on range.
TLDR: Probably wont be a big deal/significant difference
would be nice if induced drag wasnt constant for all missiles so the main disadvantage of grid fins (high induced drag when maneuvering) could be modelled but its gonna act like a normal missile most likely
Grid fins act as literal airbrakes in the transonic region, and their primary drag advantage only starts to show above M2-2.5. This has been talked to death already.
The missile is of similar dimensions to the AIM-7M and in surface launch only reaches 12km vs the RIM-7M’s 26km, hence why I said it would be kinematically inferior to the 7M in typical WT launch conditions if modelled properly.
Modelling it as having a similar drag profile to planar fin missiles would be a massive net gain, likely nearly doubling its kinetic energy in subsonic launches.
Average velocity for missiles in WT really arent that high either seeing as missiles are rarely launched at any real altitudes or particularly high speeds, making it dubious the R-77 would spend any real portion of its flight time at speeds where its grid fins high mach number drag advantages would come into play.
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not true at all R-77s quickly accelerate to a high mach number over the course of their burn and theyll hold at high mach numbers (like most missiles) the transonic region is only towards the end of flight when the missile is practically dead and out of energy, this is the region in missiles where if the target makes any significant deviations in course the missile lacks the energy to properly react.
So the transonic drag has nowhere near the drag affect you think it does, unless the missile is launched at such a low velocity and low altitude where it struggles to get to a mach number higher than 2 it wont really matter.
Also you’ve brought this 12km figure a lot but it fails to consider the fact the missile is a proposed SAM model, its pretty disingenuous to refer to this figure since R-77s dont loft (I believe RIM-7Ms would loft since AIM-7Ms have been described to have trajectory shaping) and the system doesnt use any radar beyond the missile’s own which could have its own limitations especially being an early version of the missile.
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I think we’ll be seeing F-15C/J this patch; the F-2 can only use AAM-4 for ARH which is MASSIVELY above AMRAAM A/B. Barak II can’t use AMRAAM, it’s only cleared for Derby which is probably too good to come, and the Kurnass 2000 never got AMRAAM either. I would expect this update to be just like Apex Predators, with F-15/Su-27/Gripen like F-16/MiG-29/Tornado was last year. Germany will get the F-4F ICE, and Britain a Tornado F.3 CSP or Sea Harrier with AMRAAM. I do think they’ll limit AMRAAMs to the 4 belly ones for now on the F-15, to match the Tornado, F-4F ICE and Gripen though.
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So, F-15C/J, F-4F ICE, Su-27SM, Gripen and perhaps fox 3 applications for existing aircraft.
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Derby isnt much better than AIM-120A/Bs but regardless the Israeli airforce does not use the Derby and it was only tested on a Barak I. Nothing in the Israeli TT will likely get Derby’s unless we get one of those export Kfir C.10/block 60s
I’d expect either an F-15 or the F-16I to come with amraams for them
Assuming they add BVRAAMs to all nations at once like was mentioned on dev streams, this is the tentative list that I put together:
New:
US- F-15C
Germany- F-4F ICE
Russia- Su-27? Maybe?
Britain- Tornado F.3 CSP
Japan- F-15J
Sweden- JAS 39C
Israel- F-15C Akef
Existing:
F-16C
Yak-141
MiG-29SMT
F-16A MLU
J-8F
F-16A ADF
AV-8B+
Mirage 2000-5F
JA 37D? Maybe?
I think Gaijin will add the Su-27 along with the F-15, but assuming they’re limiting the F-15s to 4 AMRAAM I think it’s possible they may leave the Su-27 with only ERs for now, and let the Yak and MiG-29SMT be the R-77 carriers. The R-27ER still outranges and is kinematically superior to the AMRAAM A/B, and it would get 6 of them; plus 4 R-73s to give the dogfight advantage. This would leave the Eagle with a BVR advantage due to being able to pull off early, and the Su-27 with the dogfight advantage.
Also, I have a suspicion that the D Viggen might just stay with 9Ls and skyflash at 11.3, since they recently moved it down in BR.
Isn’t this a Barak II testing Derbys? And yeah I agree, I don’t think it would get them, but they’ve done weirder before (SRAAM on Harrier GR.1 because it got mounted on a prototype) so I wouldn’t put it past them is all…
count the flare dispensers on the spine, 3 on each side, Barak II (Block 40s) only have 2 on each side. and since the number is visible 083 is also a barak I