Mirage F1C-200 and MiG-23ML both 11.3 (RB), are they truly equal contributors to a battle? (not regarding 1v1!)

Hello dear forum members.

I’ll keep it short:
For a while now, whenever I see a MiG-23ML in my team (very common) or a Mirage F1C-200 (rather rare), I’ve been checking the stats of the players in those particular vehicles. Mostly looking for K/D and winrate.
So I know K/D also counts AI targets and winrate depends on a lot of things, but I can safely say that overall the ML players seem to be a lot more successful than the Mirage players.

Why is that? Both planes are 11.3, so in my understanding they both should somewhat be equal in the overall sense of a mixed battle (I’m not talking 1v1!).
Is the Mirage underperforming? Is the ML overperforming, maybe both?
Should there be a BR adjustment or not, or maybe my approach is flawed? If so, why?

I do hope for a good discussion.!

Addendum:
Although I don’t on any of the two mentioned aircraftm I play a lot of high/top tier Air RB in several other machines (F-4EJ Kai, F-16J, Tornado F.3, Kfir Canard, Kfir C.7, Netz) and thus fight with/against both planes frequently.

Also, I haven’t been active in this forums yet, I do want to change it though. Please forgive me if this topic belongs somewhere else.

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Hi, I don´t have either of those, but looking at some stats and feedback from those who own them, the mirage has a bad performance at it´s tier, with a terrible rudder. The only saving grace are Magic IIs. The other missiles it carries are kind of lackuster due to the way they are guided (MTI mode radar, not PD + a guidance system that is chaffed off easily). The ML is more competitive at the BR, due to better top speed, acceleration, and much better missiles. R24Rs are very good even with MTI mode, and have a good range. R60Ms are great for headons or unaware targets. Hope it cleared out some doubts.

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It’s tricky.

Just take another example: Hunter F.Mk.58 sits at 9.7 in Sim EC, just like the A-7D Corsair II.

Both can carry bombs, Mavericks, and (similar) AIM-9’s - just the Corsair can carry all at once (e.g. 2 'Winders, 6 Mavericks and a good, hefty load of bombs), the Hunter just 2 Sidewinders OR 2 Mavericks OR 2 bombs (plus two handfulls of 8cm rockets).

So the Corsair is certainly the much more capable of the two, but lowering the Hunter in BR because of that would cause tremendous difficulties for its opponents, and rising the Corsair to a higher BR would in turn place the A-7 in a very difficult to play/survive corner.

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That’s a very good answer, thank you very much for taking the time to get some feedback about those planes!

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Thank you for your answer, that’s a very good point, I was thinking the same.

Maybe the Mirage is underperforming a lot, but would it be OP if you adjust it’s BR a little lower?
Personally I think right now it performs light a slightly worse F-4E, which sits at 11.0 (RB).

Would the Mirage be OP at 11.0? If you ask me, I would say no, but again, I do not own it, but I almost exclusively play Air RB in this BR range and see it suffering a lot.

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I´d say it´s not about lowering it, but increasing the top bracket to, I´d say, 12.7 - 13.0
Then it could be viable. But we know it´s not happening anytime soon…

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I own the F1C-200. It struggles. The performance is NOT 11.3. Yes the Magic 2s are good but thats it. The radar is bad, radar guided missiles are also bad since they are only PULSE guided (easily EASILY chaffed). Airframe performance is Id say average or good actually but missile kit and radar just puts it down. I think 11.0 should be okay since J-7D exists there already and does just fine comparably.

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Yes, comparations like these do exist thats true and there are numerous. Overall BR adjustments need to be made but I understand that it takes some time. But if we look at other rank 7 prems, particularly F-4S and MiG-23ML which sit at the SAME BR, it is no doubt that F1C just lacks the impact those other planes have. Lazur and J-7D as I mentioned, are much more comparable to Mirage F1Cs overall.

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I don’t have a Mirage, but own the MiG-23MLA, the same as the ML in everything but a slightly better radar, and I only play top jets, often meeting these aircraft.

Radar and missiles for BVR - MiG is superior due to more reliable missile lock and the ability to take the R-24T.

Flight performance - MiG excels again, being an excellent ratefighter (recently had a duel with the F-16 for about seven minutes, slowly but surely winning), acceleration is also excellent. The Mirage is … average, I don’t even have anything to say about it.

In fact, if you give Mirage Magic 1 instead of Magic 2, it can safely be put on 11.0 BR

Of all the jets I own, the Mirage F1C-200 is probably the worst off. Its look-down radar is nearly worthless, which means that its SARH missiles are nearly worthless. That leaves you with an 11.3 jet fighter with two all-aspect IR missiles. Compare that to any other jet fighter at the BR. I’ve taken to using it in a strike-fighter role, as it can (just) carry enough bombs to destroy a ground base. It’s a very pretty jet, but it can’t compete with anything at the BR. Looking at something like the F-8E for comparison, I’d probably drop the Mirage down to 10.7.

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Ah yes
Enjoy the dodging Magic II with flareless jets such as Mirage IIICJ, MiG-21SPS-K,.

J-7D with PL-5B which are arguably better than Magic II, I wont mention Su-25 and A-10 with R60MK and AIM-9L, you got SMT with better airframe carrying R-60, etc…

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Su-25, A-10, A-6: Just hello, just how are you

very true, plus magics just like to disappear in my case, only having an extremely short burn time you have to be really close in.

But yeah, i guess R-60m’s and aim-9L’s are at lower brs are ok, but not the magically inconsistent missile.

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Let’s say any day Magic II overload up to 50G

I guess Mirage F1C-200 might increase to 11.7

I have used both to grind out (about half) of their respective tech trees. 500-ish games with both combined, and I can say without a doubt the Mig-23 ML is better in almost every sense. Much much better radar missiles, speed, maneuverability, number of missiles, and guns. The only things the F1C-200 does better is the Magic 2 missiles and a better bomb loadout. Its hard to even compare the two as similar. The F1C-200 should be 10.7 or 11.0 at the very least.

One is painful at its tier, and the other is alright.

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100% agree. If the stats are good is because of the owners ;)

I own the Mig-23ML, and that one is 11.3 material.

Edit: Shit, I see this was for RB, I was speaking for SB

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Works in both cases imo

I feel like, if Gaijin was going to do something about the F1C-200’s performance and BR, they would’ve done it by now. I mean, they haven’t even fixed the flaps at takeoff.