and THAT is hilariously wrong,
You may be right!
But it should not have its AoA artificially limited so unskilled players can pull as hard as they want on the stick and get the optimal angle of attack.
The Mig29 is a very tough cookie to fly and takes skill irl. It should be in game and capable of all of the above. But also take skill.
It does not have the FBW computer holding the pilots hand quite like the F16
Real pilots don’t agree with you
MiG-29 was actually not meant to fight low speed AoA fights dogfighting would be done at higher speeds with rate fights the whole low speed nose authority was a last ditch thing but typically you dont want to get in a slow radius fight right off the bat similar reasons to why MiG-23 pilots never dogfighted with 16 degree wingsweep but instead did their fighting in either 33/35 degree sweep or 45 degree sweep
I never said low speed. I said soviet doctrine it to cash energy in for immediate nose authority. They also pride themselves on post stall manuevers. So, If you can find doctrine stating otherwise that they are more akin to the west I will happily change my position.
Remember, you are a reasonable man. The Mig29 entered service with a pathetic combat radius of 80 nautical miles. It is a frontal aviation asset. They do not have time to go out and rate fight fighters.
They fly up get into a knife fight immediately get that nose on, kill and come back down. It is purely their design to end the fight as quick as possible. To ensure that, Mikoyan required that the fighter have high alpha capability to get nose on as quickly as possible and even high off boresight capability in the R73.
who told you this? soviet aircraft were not built for this at all, its a myth. They were (like any good fighter) meant to be able to do whatever the pilot wished for it to do, It can rate well or it can use nose authority but “dumping speed to nose authority” is a blatant lie and no sane pilot will tell you this was a tactic in any russian aircraft.
Change may with are in this case, if you can’t do the (easy) math from the chart you can look at the tables @ZVO_12_INCH has provided
That’s why, as I said MANY times (and you know it), I say in general instructors need a rework with a system that allow you to choose what AoA you wanna pull. The problem doesn’t exist with a stick it’s just a matter of pulling less (which you CAN’T do with mouse aim).
Also I love how you went from “I WANT MORE AOA” to “MiG29 is tough bird to fly”… looking at how you didn’t want to test the F-16 before it’s “almost like” (/s) you want the MiG29 to stay a brick lol…
I can find documents for days. But you made the claim otherwise. I will change my position if you can show me soviet doctrine stating otherwise.
Mig29s lacked combat radius and is not their design. They are Frontal Aviation assets. Point defense fighters. They are not meant to be out there long. Again, first mig29 had a combat radius of 80 nautical miles with no refueling capability and even designed to land at makeshift forward airfield in the event they cannot make it back to base.
The jet needs to kill opponents immediately and they are point defense fighters. He who gets nose on first was the doctrine of the time. They also designed the R73 to assist in this doctrine.
Again, if you can provide soviet doctrine stating otherwise, I will be more than happy to change my position.
The main concern when designing the MiG29 was designing an aircraft with great high speed energy retention and speed/zoom climbing ability, which are the same parameters the F-15 excel at (unlike the mig29 though the F-15 does it while carrying a lot of fuel and a radar that doesn’t need ground radars to be useful (that doesn’t mean once the MiG29 locks you at 10km it will be easy to notch because the radar has less power, stating this given previous conversations…)), as that is what matters the most in real life.
Dogfighting wasn’t the TOP priority, but nonetheless you are right that the mig29 was designed to be able to pull high Alpha, but that doesn’t mean that the bonkers thrust to weight ratio that it has can’t make it perform in a rate fight.
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ok post one then :)
Ok while I pull literature. Are documentaries or videos of Airforce Weapons School Analyst acceptable in meantime? An expert and his literal job was determining soviet capability and doctrine in the Airforce’s equivalent of Top Gun.
If this is one of those constant peg pilots/analysts then no since theyve been proven time and time again they know nothing about the planes they “analyze” based on everytime they open their mouth on a MiG-23. Post a manual or good book. Or a interview with a pilot who is not western
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I swear to God it’s not constant peg LMFAO.
Not a pilot a soviet analyst from the US Airforce. He is USAF Weapons School Graduate (Class 15A), and a former FTU instructor teaching Air Battle Managers that would go on to crew controller positions in AWACS, JSTARS, and GTACS Squadrons. He also went on controlling tactical assets during OEF/OIF/OND, & running the unit Weapons & Tactics shop for the Airforce.
Who also says the Su27 was the principal threat of the United States with insane capabilities. He also speaks in regard to the Indian Mig21 Bison when they observed it how awesome it is and capable even against 4th Gens.
As for the literature, so you will not accept anything, but actual soviet doctrine written in Cyrillic? Can it be from western analyst source or nah?
Wait, what do you have against the Constant Peg analyst? Lol they determined some amazing things about the Mig23 and the Soviets. How ridiculously fast it was, (blows the tomcat away in acceleration). It’s actually much smaller than one thinks by looking at pictures. Also, that the Soviets were ahead of CM technology and able to modify their flares to burn like that of western engines because they knew the Americans designed their IR missiles to track their own signatures by error. Which gave rise the the Aim-9P series missiles.
I for one wouldn’t mind hearing what he has to say, but always keep in mind that what a true analyst will say in an interview for the public often won’t be the whole picture.
E.g already labelling the su27 as the most important threat depends on the scenario… In a scenario like Ukraine is right now I would fear a lot more a fighter that in a 200km range (which means also close to ground radars) will perform on par (perhaps even better) with the F15 and can literally be mass produced in thousands of units compared to an aircraft that is FAR more expensive and isn’t remarkably better when operating ranges are short
@DracoMindC most of the “analyst” that speak crap about the MiG23 aren’t actual analysts…
anyone with a brain knows that if the MiG21 was better than the MiG23 the Soviets would have just kept upgrading the MiG21.
Most of the people know the MiG23 based on the performance of the 5G limited export models that fought Tomcats firing fucking R3S
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oh no im referring to constant peg pilots who deadass flew MiG-23s and then proceed to incorrectly name parts of the plane and how it works and how it handles etc
I mean its concerning when the ones flying the plane are incorrectly naming dials in the cockpit lol
Yeah they are the same guys I am talking about
I will message you guys
The Flanker is just a whole other animal over the Mig29 imo.
The Flanker is still the principal threat to the United States and will be for a very long time. Not the Su57.
The Flanker has the combat radius, sheer number of missiles and ability to continue to upgrading avionics and radars. The Two-seater flanker has shown itself to be the premier of the series. able to retain its radar and add additional RIO roles. China has upgraded these things insanely and Russia continues to upgrade their missiles and capability as well.
In my opinion the have surpassed everything the Tomcat was and could have been. A true strategic fighter. They are no tactical fighters like the F16 and Mig29. Whole other class.
Again it depends on what you have to do.
Each aircraft was designed to satisfy the needs of the country that made them.
If you need to achieve air superiority over the frontline MiG29s will be a better investment than a Flanker, as what your are paying for is literally rocket like flight performance and a radar that has good STT lock characteristics.
If you need a fighter that can do a lot more stuff, at longer ranges and doesn’t rely on ground radars you get a flanker.
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By the way, yesterday India solemnly said goodbye to the MiG-21UPG Bison…maybe Technical literature on it will appear soon?
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