I don’t think people realize that the aoa limiter should only be used to either get the gun on or a hob shot, after the first turn if your enemy isn’t dead or out of energy too (because you will be) you just got yourself killed.
I never actually found a source saying it couldnt carry those missiles, just that it never did due to being a demonstrator.
But in terms of WT it doesnt if it did carry it - just if it could carry it so that wouldnt really matter
Im using the training reports of the 1994 FGR Luftwaffe exercises, these state that at lower speeds and direct confrontational tactics the MiGs had the overall advantage (even without the Archers)
The F16 where in fact slightly better in the 2 circle (24°/s vs 22°/s), but not in the 1 circles - id like to get a source on how a F16C with G-limiter and AOA-Limiter is supposed to win a 1 circle with a MiG-29, otherwise im calling cap.
From all data I am aware of the F16C is only capable of an instanteneous 26°/s turnrate due to its flight control system - the MIGs on the overhand can reach 28°/s with FCS engaged and ~30°/s or more with the overpull on.
Indeed after their hefty failure in 1994 the pilots did a lot more trainign which resulted in the huge W for the US pilots in the last training exercise of the 29G with US aircraft in 2001 - they used long lasting 2 circle tactics and energy strategies to keep the MiGs slow and reel them up from above - something which in real combat would et you killed by the wingman really fast (even in WT sim this strat is very risky)
Give me sources that prove me wrong before spreading misinformation
As i’ve said before it performs on similiar level, not the same.
And in return Mig looses excessive amount of speed against F-16 which makes it vulnerable against F-16’s 2C performance.
In real life F-16C wouldnt even need to enter to VVR fight thanks to its superior radar, armaments and electronics.
Mig29 is basically blind compare to F16C in real life situations, Mig29 entirely depends on Ground Radars in order to find its target at long ranges while its situational awareness is quite subpar compare to F16C due to lacking advanced RWR and ECM. Not the mention it doesnt even have Fox-3 Missiles which puts Mig29G at quite big disadvantage.
These cons also explained on those exercise by pilots, claiming F-16 will be at disadvantage in real life scenario is nothing but empty claim.
Your own source explains this clearly.
Not to mention current Mig29’s flight performance actually matches real life charts, this was explained multiple times on this thread, its your own fault not to read it properly.
Last but not least Mig29G has the same amount of thrust that 9.13 has, so your claim becomes even more absurd.
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which in return means that in a scissor fight, or a pure 1 circle the MiG should still win - you´re just restating what ive said.
Yet ingame the F16C absolutely smokes the MIG-29 in 1 circles for some reason - so either the MiG is underperforming or the F16 is overperforming.
this is pointless - completly.
We are talking about a flight model ingame and compare it to another flight model which it faced in real life.
The entire point of this conversation is about flight performance - the avionics are completly fine on the Fulcrum in warthunder and no one is arguing that.
Back to my old point of “either the F16 is overperforming, or the MiG is underperforming” - apparently its the F16 then, thanks.
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A nice way to fix the “uselessness” of the fulcrums in warthunder would be to implement the R27EA actually.
The MiG-29M 9.15 was the test airframe for the R27EA - a fox-3 version of the R27ER.
Would give people a reason to play it, as the flankers cant carry the EA at all.
the MiG-29 9.15 has a lot of stuff in general which is awesome
it has roughly 30% less drag during high AOA maneuvers to to the sharpened wings and LERX.
The Radar got replaced with the Zhuk-10ME which is the only radar I know of capable of guiding the R27EA.
It got 2x extra pylons which can carry R27ERs, so 8x Missiles in total 4x of which are ER/ET/EAs.
And last but not least the 29M got a MAWS which a countermeasure pod that carries 250 Countermeasures - so around 300 Chaff/Flare in total!
its an awesome aircraft in general and I hope gaijin uses the opportunity to give us the R27EA on the 29M as a counterpart to the AIm-120C5 which has been leaked to be in the files.
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That would be perfect
There is no guarantee that Mig29 will win the one circle, F-16 can easily evade Mig29’s agressive one circle move.
You’re the one who claimed 2 circle will get killed you in real life, now you’re saying this is pointless? Lmao.
Indeed F-16 performs better than in real life, but so does other planes as well.
It seems whenever counter argument doesnt suit you you just trying to change the subject.
Anyway i already spent enough time with you, you can keep complain about F-16 all you want but F-16 will always be better than MiG-29 in both game and real life.
since the 29 also got the new “maneuver mode” mechanic:
issues related to the new “maneuver mode” mechanic (this may affect all planes that received this, but I only tested it with the su30sm and f18)
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/CpWjJ6b8r3rt
my first ever bug report D:
In terms of the airframe itself i disagree, i think they are equal, however yeah in terms of avionics/radars the mig unfortunately fell behind due to the fall of ussr. If instead of the mig29a it was the M fighting against the f16 the results would be closer…
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buffs them again too much in the wrong direction plus its ahistorical probably
just give them r73
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Decompression would pretty much “fix” their usefulness, put rafales and efts at 14.7, f15C and other Fox 3 carriers at 14.0-14.3, put su-27 at 13.3 and bingo you have a reason to play with the mig29.
Like you explained im talking about whole package.
If USSR didnt fall and Mig29M entered the service everything could’ve been different.
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When did I say that 2 circle doesnt matter?
I really gotta hold back to not call you dumb, please just read again what I wrote.
so you answered my question correctly, the F16 is overperforming and presenting a wrong picture to the players of what the standart in flight performance should be.
I think you misread - with giving the MiGs the ER I mean only to the MiG-29Ms in upcoming BRs at 14.0-14.3
Like I said - the R27EA should only be introduced as a counterpart to the Aim-120C5 - which the Soviets/Russia doesnt have a counter against anyways
The game will eventually progress to these types of missles - and if it goes that far it would be better if we saw a balanced experience with comparable missiles instead of Aim-120C5s facing R77 (the Aim-120C5s effective range is almost 50% bigger than the current Amraams - which already outrange the R77)
The R27EA was an idea for the future - in the current state of the game it would be quite OP, dont you think?
The R27EA was the intended weaponry for the MiG-29M (9.15)- similiar to the Yak-141 project it got cancelled tho and only a few got build and equipped (but there where still some)
So it would theoretically be Premium/Squadron/Event material - btu considering how the YAK-141 got added to the techtree too it might be possible to see the 9.15M in the TT - in which case the R27EA would be quite a unique addition as it is the most far ranging +30G Fox-3 that russia ever had.
We could also see it as a counterpart to the Aim-120D and Meteor, but considering those have far more advanced guidance and more range it would be pretty unfair.
The Aim-120C5 on the other hand has only slightly less range (around 10km in max range and 5km in effective) but slightly more advanced tracking - so a perfect tradeoff!
So does other planes but all you care how much F16 overperforms.
Honestly this is nothing but wasting my time, have fun with your complaining.
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The 27EA is a good tradeoff to the 120A currently in game when considering the other aspects to these jets…
no reason for this, it isn’t better than current 13.0s.
There’s no reason for the mig29g with its 2 x r27ers+4 r73s to stay at the same br as the flanker which has an absurd 6 x 27er + 2 r73s loadout and MUCH better fuel efficiency, i won’t even mention the western jets with their crappy sparrows and downtiers on which you face freaking PHANTOMS lol
Su-33 with 10 missiles is even more comical
The R-77-1 is already a counterpart to the AIM-120C-5, it really isn’t that crazy. The R-27EA isn’t necessary at all imo. There are of course other options like R-37M or even R-77M.
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