Try reading what I said again.
consider this if the 29G has more fuel it still could be lighter unless the 29G is like max fuel and the SMT is significantly lower some gap like that, please give specific fuel figures and I can tell you which is heavier or not actually
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… right
The instructor limits all aircraft on purpose so that they don’t bleed excessive speed in mouse aim. The devs have done this intentionally. Mirage 2000 players complained about it, and when I reported that it seemed excessively limiting to me they fixed it. If you want a similar change for the MiG-29, you can report it. No one is stopping you.
I have my own opinions, based on actual evidence AND my own personal experience and feelings when testing the aircraft. I’ve flown it in actual matches, I’ve done testing in test flight. It makes no difference. I know what I know, and it’s factual. I pointed out something you were wrong about, and I added my own opinion to further the conversation and you reply hatefully and disrespectfully. It’s not necessary.
You don’t need to be a developer to understand what is happening with the 9-12G over the 9-19 FM’s. The 9-19 is heavier, the center of gravity shifted unfavorably. It performs worse due to this. It has other advantages like the radar.
Do you dispute any of the facts I’m sharing? Do you think the SMT is being manipulated unfairly?
The SMT weight balance is different than the MiG-29G’s even if the total weight is less due to ordnance or fuel.
I already did. But lets get objective.
So my average games when I engage in dogfighting.
SMT is flying 18min fuel (no drop tank) armed with 4xR72
The G can fly 28mins (no drop tank) armed with 4xR72 and sometimes both R27ERs
The G is still significantly better in roll rate, turn rate, pitch, alpha and climb over the SMT
Which weighs more and by how much. Remember the #1 fuel tank is the spine of the Mig29. Its always filled first. The SMT on average has less fuel in the wings as well or should be historically. Roll rate should not be degraded as it is in game especially if flying with 20 or less.
the Mig29G has no regard for full fuel and should not because Mikoyan developed the aircraft to carry the max fuel and stay combat effective in dogfighting. thats why it also has a poor radius outside of what it was designed to do, point defense.
for simplification do you happen to have WTRTI or the client that reads out performance like AoA, turnrate, G pull, etc just to quantify the difference
also whats the max fuel time of the G before take off with full internal fuel I need that for calculation (I dont have German TT so I cannot check myself and 9-13 has more internal fuel)
I no longer have any.
But I will provide better table to go off for anyone to conduct their own to determine which aircraft engages on average heavier or lighter in RB
the G or SMT.
Max fuel time internal of the G is 30:53
if you could give specific performance differences it could numerically would be helpful
but anyways in the fuel times you gave the SMT is infact a few hundred kilos lighter, however* Im gonna have to point out when MiG-23M was talking about the code earlier he was right the FM code between the 9-19 and 9-12G are pretty much the same in terms of flight performance, only 10kgf more thrust (nonfactor because its so little) and SMT is very slightly more draggy.
So if the SMT is significantly lighter it shouldnt perform worse still, I understand you’re going off ingame experience but based off the way youve described it, I doubt it has been quanitified so if you could use WTRTI or a program like that to show differences in performance to prove (numerically) the SMT is performing worse then it’d be enough to convince me and I’d be happy to assist in putting together a bug report to fix the modelling error
The 9-12 and 9-13 do not have a spine fuel tank, the wing tanks raise a bit in the center to fill that area but it is mostly flight controls. The 9-19 has a spinal fuel tank. The radar is different. The center of gravity shift is likewise going to be greater.
Looking into it, appears the MiG-29SMT might require more drag to account for some of the additional surfaces like the refueling probe. They are quite large.
radar mass isnt a thing afaik ingame
this is true CoG changes would affect stability and would have effects described, though this is hard to quantify
like I said before if performance differences were quantified it’d be much easier to see what we’re working with here lol
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They are roughly the same has been my point and sometimes the G is outright heavier when I engage in dogfights because I was unable to launch the R27Es, and I rushed the furball. Which only the G is capable of doing without such heavy degradation of performance. I can enter matches with no regard to fuel really in the G.
Also I was generous about the 18min.
I do want to simplify my stance here because I am certain the SMT should not be this degraded to this degree. But want to be fair to each fighter.
So I will simplify my scenario.
SMT 15min internal 4x73s
G 28min 4x73s
Both aircraft begin engaging in dogfights in RB. What is the weight of each and how detrimental should the performance be of which is heavier.
That number 1# fuel tank in the spine is larger therefore more fuel sits in the center of gravity of the SMT and less in the wings. So, it should already not suffer in roll really unless full imo.
SMT in that scenario is a few hundred kg lighter like I said what you’d expect is turnrate to be worse, AoA would be the same since thats unaffected (see below with 9-13 and 9-19 at roughly same speed and altitude and instructor pulling the exact same AoA)
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You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Agreed, AoA should remain the same, however at differing high Mach numbers the SMT seems to not want to pull up as much as the G and at times playing both back-to-back nonstop the SMT is the only one that gets me killed because of it. The roll rate at low alt as well.
The spinal tank you’re referring to doesn’t exist in any other MiG-29 besides the 9-19 in-game. It’s the #7 iirc per the files.
I still (and I know I probably sound like a broken record at this point) would like it if you quantified the differences, I suspect you might be experiencing a sort of placebo effect making you perceive the SMT is performing significantly worse in the conditions you listed. I dont have the 9-12A/G so I cannot compare myself. I have the 9-13 and in my comparisons the things you described where not happening, but maybe if its a bug it could be a 9-12 thing so if you could test with WTRTI or the other one people use and compare it would be great help. There could be more at play still and tommorow ill look into it with more depth since lately I find myself playing the SMT more anyways (R-73 neuron activation) and enjoying it. But like I said I can only compare the 9-13 and 9-19 from my end
P.S if you compare the 29G with 20min fuel and SMT with min fuel and make it in test flight so fuel stays the same constantly the 29G is only 220ish kg heavier than the SMT which would make good testing parameters
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It does not matter; the additional fuel sits in the center. Its filled first and if you fly with less fuel than the average mig, your roll should not be degraded.
We’re waiting for you to show us that the roll rate indeed changes, until then we don’t have anything to go off of. Would be funny if you’d use all this experience to make a report and see where it goes.
Of course, those can definitely be factors 100%, you are right and why I want to place my findings out for people who actually play the jets in actual battles provide their feedback as well.
I will give it a go since the SMT is important.
Thank you please do look into it.
More people that can look into the greater.
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15200 hours, is it 633 days you live in the game?
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Make sure you use localhost and not WTRTI if you end up doing a report.
633.33 it seems, yes. Not enough experience I guess.
Over 11 years.
Hes played it so much he has become Neo from the Matrix and is armed with superior datamining tools no need to play the game anymore like the average mortal man.
he is so mad right now and going to keep posting and derailing watch…
It sucks because now he will do everything in his power to make sure the SMT stays as is just to make a point.
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