Now that the Mig-25PD has been revealed i think we need to address something regarding how the Sapfire-25 radar has been implemented. Needless to say, the implications is bound also on how each version of the Sapfir-23 is currently implemented in the game, as the Sapfire-25 is a derivative of the Sapfire-23ML (N003).
As it can be seen in the Devserver, the ingame radar of the Mig-25PD is still afflicted by the artificial nerf of having LD/SD capability at high/medium altitude removed.
I’m not going to complain about the automatic switch between the “search mode” and the “MTI” mode because that is actually true and faithful to the real feature of the radar avionics of both Floggers and Foxbats. What is missing? The BSV-delta H4 and BSV-delta H1 modes (which could be simplified in one mode) that were actually present on the Floggers ingame before the infamous update. These two modes where also bound to where the nose of the plane was pointing and altitude, but those two modes where specifically designed to allow both Foxbats and Floggers to being able to detect targets below them (not much actually - like 5 km of maximum altitude difference) while remaining at high altitude. Those modes where not relying on MTI “Doppler Shifts” but on compensators that filtered out the ground false signal.
Is already sad to use any Flogger without the possibility of detecting anything below you while at high altitude, but at least is still a Flogger and you can play with it at low altitude as well…even if i think is unfair to literally amputate its radar like that and therefore, forcing the jet to only play efficiently at low/medium altitude (in Sim this issue is even more relevant).
But the Mig-25 can’t do anything at low altitude. The only strenght that the jet has is its own speed at high altitude and the ability to see (at least something) below him. If Devs will keep the Sapfir-25 like that, the plane will become just stupidly incompetent even in the very small niche/role that it may have in game.
Dev server. Everything (for the most part) is not final and is subject to change
that is why we point out the problems so they DO get changed. Just ignoring problems and hoping they get fixed completely defeats the point of having a Dev. server.
Duh? But the way you worded it made it seem like you thought it’s in a final state ._.
We will not know what it’s final state is until the patch goes live, that is why we bring up issues as they appear. The radar issue is of extra concern as the OP mentioned it has been a long standing issue with Mig-23 radars (which use an older version of the same radar) that has been ignored for a few years now, which would indicate Gaijin is happy to leave it as it is, hence the extra effort to try to push for a fix now as the Mig-25 will now be able to play around it like the Mig-23.
here is the thing the MTI thing is BS just like on the mig 23,s. also mig-25PD dose not have a Sapfire-25 it has a Sapfire-25M that has PD and Lock/down
Sorry but no, the Mig-25PD had the Sapfir-25 which replaced the Semrch radar of the P version. LD/SD mode is available but the radar is not a properly Pulse Doppler Radar as i have explained before. For High altitude it relied on the BSV mode for targets above and for lower targets it had the BSV-delta H4 and BSV-delta H1 which used DKP device to filter out the ground clutter and at lower altitude it switched to MTI. In reality, there where also three additional modes which could be switched manually for different necessities at high/medium altitudes. They were called BS (I BS, II BS, III BS) , but ingame they would be not necessay as we don’t get false signals from clouds…
Anyway, again, I don’t even know where this Sapfir-25M version comes from unless you are confusing the other designation of the Sapfir-25 which is RP-25M. In that case, is just the name that is confusing but is actually the same system from 1975.
Anybody know if this is de-classified?
Because I can post the entire operational specs of the radar if it is.
@Gunjob do you know anything about this one mate? is it ok to post? it’s fairly easy to find on the internet but I don’t want to post something that’s still technically classified.
I don’t know about the russian version…For sure the Iraqi version should be quite easily an open source at this point but is better to double check in order to avoid issues.
It is the Iraqi one, or at least an export manual as its in English rather than Russian, I’ll tag on of the tech mods into it and ask.
it is declassed
it has been posted multiple times before on here
Thanks, I assumed so given that copies must have been captured from Iraq and probably acquired from Syria and Libya at this point, but given the lack of declassification markings on the document itself I’ll wait for a mod to green light it before I post any of the contents. Just to be on the safe side.
To my knowledge there is no issues with that document.
Awesome thanks for the response! I’ll post up the radar details soon as this match is over.
You know, considering how clear this is, it’s really difficult to understand why Gaijin removed the BSV-delta H (or HMA-delta H as mentioned in the manual) mode from the Sapfir-23D-III, Sapfir-23ML and Sapfir-23MLA. And even more confusing why they did not put it in the Sapfir-25.
Well, I guess we can only hope thy will take a look at this again…
I mean this is better than on the mld where youre limited to the mti below 1500m but quite still limiting as over 3000m you can only target aircrafts over 1500m
The functionality of the Sapfir-25 are identical to those of the Sapfir-23ML (Mig-23ML). The Sapfir-23MLA (Mig-23MLA and MLD) are actually on par and even superior in certain aspects.
And if the effectiveness of the radar while in HMA-delta H depends on altitude…at high altitude is possible to see and engage targets located 5 km below you, which for the game is enough to allow it to climb and stay high without being totally blind.
Here, take a look at this below (is from the same manual and it should clarify a bit):
But again…that mode was removed from every Flogger’s radar and now even the Mig-25PD lacks it
Yes? Well, the RP-25M is the Sapfir-25…So, no pulse doppler. Only LD/SD via filtering the clutter at high altitude and MTI at low altitude. Same as for the Mig-23s.
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