I’ve been looking at the MiG-21PFM but considering the fact that it is 10.0 at air sim is a bit over BR’d in my opinion. Its 2x R3S loadout, being one of the earliest MiG-21s. Even as the wikipedia states, i quote “The production version of the Ye-7M was a modernised MiG-21PF” designated the MiG-21PFM. As far as i’m concerned this is the PFM we have in the game. Back to the point, 2x R3S, no countermeasures, lack of engine power or proper modernizations, this aircraft is technically a weaker. I’m only asking for a 9.3-9.7 downtier for a more suitable sim BR of its age. The following aircraft are better in practically every way possible yet face the same BRs.
MiG-21S (R-13-300)
F8U-2 (due to its countermeasures i consider it here)
F-8E(FN)
I’d love to get some feedback and hear other sim player’s opinions, hopefully even get a bit of attention on this post in hope of a slight change.
They are nearly identical. There is no reason the PFM should be any lower than the 21S
no they arent
PFM gets only 2xR3S which is a worse aim9b
S gets 4xR3R which is actually really good and it also gets a better engine
No thanks, I really dont want to be trying to deal with Supersonic Mig-21s in aircraft like the Hunter F6 or Harrier Gr1.
You already do though, 9.7 sees 10.0 in air sim brackets lol.
Edit: its a flareless aircraft so your SRAAMs are perfect to perform against it, all it has is 2 aim9Bs which you can dodge like any other aircraft, and the lil squirt gun it gets on the mig21 really isnt all that accurate or good. Its the worst of the mig21s. If anything the gr.1 with SRAAMs is what shouldn’t be seeing 8.7 lol
MiG-21S (R-13-300) 4x R-3R, gun, 6480kgf thrust
MiG-21PFM 2x R-3S, gun, 5000kgf thrust
The S is literally the modernized variant of the PFM, it isn’t anywhere identical.
I will preface, I do not play air sim, however I did play the absolute heck out of the mig21s r13 and choosing between r3s and r3r was night and day. You worry less about energy retention and getting behind your opponents rather you stay high and enjoy easy head-on kills with r3rs. This advantage is not seen on the PFM and is objectively worse in air to air combat. The PFM only reigns supreme with an air to ground missile.
Not in the 8.7-9.7 bracket.
Also, SRAAMs can be defeated very easily, including just flying away from them, Id have to fire within 400-600m for an SRAAM to catch you. If you tried to dogfight, then thats on you
The head-on potential is probably only stronger in Sim, as you have no markers and may not even know the Mig-21 is there. Not a lot even has an RWR. Also 1 on 1 engagements are the norm
That be true! Again, not a sim guy just throwing in my 2 cents from my ARB experience!
Yep, and i’ve never played a Mig-21 but have played a lot of Sim, so perfect combo :P
Consider the fact that while an SRAAM requires close range, 8.7-9.7 is quite literally the BR where most vehicles have no secondary loadouts, guns only, you cannot just keep running forever from harriers. I’ve played harriers and had a field day against practically everything at my BR. The PFM which barely even reaches supersonic speeds would need to engage in turnfights to even be able to defeat the aircraft at these BRs, since the gun is only useful at really close ranges, and the missiles are absolutely pointless on it. The PFM being one of the very first production series, it lacks the thrust or engine strength to be able to sustain any sort of turnfights and also stops it from regaining speed quickly, which practically puts it in a situation where any aircraft like a harrier or ariete scan scoot in and score an easy kill.
Ok cool. Regardless of whatever you have to say, there is 0 reason MiG-21s should get to fight 8.7 aircraft at any time. And with it staying at 10.0, they have both the 10.0 and 10.3 brackets to fly competitively.
its a really bad mig21, on rb its 9.3 on AB its 8.7
there is no reason to make it 10.0 on sim
its hard already to get a kill with it in rb imagine it in sim
mig19pt is 9.7 in sb somehow and its fine
I’ve played it substantially in Sim. It’s fine at 10.0.
It’s also not worth comparing to the MiG-19s, they fly entirely differently.
Exactly the MiG-19 is arguably better than any of the early MiG-21s in every way lol.
Flying “competitively” in only ONE bracket and even then facing aircraft loaded with flares, all aspect missiles and up to modern standards fire control systems, in an aircraft that existed in an era where flares weren’t even known about yet, with 2x of the worst missiles in the game. Saying its competitive is far from reality no matter how good the pilot is
I don’t see how a Harrier Gr.1 with SRAAMs is considered a fair fight when its thrust vectoring allows it to pull off crazier maneuvers than any MiG-21s, can go ~ mach 0.9 which is not much under the early mig-21s performance, and has those nasty missiles which perform perfectly for the close gun scenarios 8.7s are forced to because of the lack of missiles. Yet R-3S would be unfair?
Well… let me answer that for you.
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SRAAMs. They are buggy as hell at the moment and underperforming significantly. They cant be used within about 400m due to them spiralling wildly towards the target and missing and they current have a hard max (no coasting) of about 800m (Bug report a year old for them to have a range of 2km, also all-aspect, but that last bit is unlikely)
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Defences. Harrier Gr1 has No CMs, No RWR and no Radar. It has extremely limited cockpit visiblity, You are almost entirely blind to what is going on around you, if something like, I dont know, a Mig-21 that is a LOT faster than it came out of no where behind it, it would have no idea you were even there
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Performance. Yes, Harrier Gr1 can use VIFF. But VIFF also kills off most of your speed, leaving you very slow (in fact any turn bleeds speed instantly, even without VIFF). This thankfully is a regime that the Harrier Gr1 does well in, if the target also goes low and slow and doesnt do the smart thing of just running away, and then turning around and coming back in for another run on the now slow and vulnerable harrier. At which point, you were just asking to be killed, that being said. SRAAMs also have a min launch speed (around 400kph) , such low and slow tactics quite often take the Harrier Gr1 below that min speed, meaning, unless you are lucky, you are basically reliant on the 30mm ADENs and them alone.
- Temp. ALL Harriers are the hottest things in the known universe, even with flares, flaring almost anything in one is extremely hard, as the Harrier Gr1 has no flares to begin with, Even an Aim-9B is almost certainly a kill, unless it was fired wrong. IRL, it was possible to prevent an aircraft from even acquiring a rear aspect IR lock by VIFFing.
About Sea Harrier but they use the same engine and essentially the same airframe
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Engine management. All Harrier’s over heat quickly if you go above 80% throttle, meaning spending extending periods of time in a dogfight over this throttle is ill-advised. You can spend as much time nursing engines temps as you are dogfighting most of the time in any Harrier. Also WEP is time limited as its water injection, Not a continious Afterburning.
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Visibiliy. ALL Harriers current have a smokey exhaust that can be seen from miles away. This is wrong, 4 month old report in for that, yet to be fixed. This means its really hard to be sneaky in a Harrier, any harrier, when you have a giant flashing beacon telling the world where you are at all times.
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Guns. 30mm ADENs are very hard to use nad have a very low ammo count.
The fact you are trying to use perhaps one of the weakest 9.7 aircraft, in sim right now, as justification for a 10.0 aircraft to go down to 9.7, is quite funny
Personally I would take the Harrier GR.1 over many of the other 9.7 planes. SRAAMs are still guaranteed kills against basically any subsonic plane you get close enough to. I also don’t understand the complaint about the ADENs.