Forgot about the SU-27 and J-11 SARH versions
What would be the lowest br be for the su39 to get r77 13.0 like av8B+?
Probably, only Fox-3 aircraft below 13.0 is the F-14A and only because the Aim-54A is considered “A lot weaker” than the later generation Fox-3s.
Sea Harrier FA2 for example is pretty dreadful at the moment, and totally outclassed by basically any other Fox-3 aircraft currently at 13.0, but it would go below 13.0, and basically any Fox-1 slinger too tbh.
So Su-39 with R-77 probably would be at 13.0 just because R-77 = R-77. But 12.7 is the absolute lowest I could see it going. Certainly not the Sub 12.0 that one guy wants it at
what you think a 60s tech missile weighing like 1500lbs isn’t comparable to a 90s ~140lb missile? that’s just bias!
Are you talking about the aim 54 and r77?
Also plus let’s not forget that the 12.7 13.0 and 13.3 are so saturated you just get pulled into fox 3 territory anyway
They wont even let the Su-39 carry R-73s on its outermost pylons for “balance”, I would hate to see what R-77s would do to it.
Nah, with the harriers, and now the M-346 being both subsonic carriers at 13.0, highly unlikely that a Su-39 with them would be lower.
Personally I think a good compromise would be giving it R-27ERs and 27ETs and putting it at 12.7, giving it the Yak-141 treatment. Ultimately I think giving a 11.0 airframe x2 Fox-3s and pushing it further into compression by having it become a 13.0 isn’t the best option.
At its core the 21 Bison is an all around competitive jet with great electronics upgrades that unfortunately sits at a bracket heavy with power creep and compression. In a downtier its phenomenal with its weapons being perfect for the 3rd and early 4th gen fighters it sees, but these weapons, specifically the R-27R quickly becomes outclassed at 12.7-13.3, not only by the enemies but your own team, often wasting missiles as they cant reach the target fast enough and sometimes not even seeing a single enemy due to being forced to fly defensive all match while having no option to return fire until within 8km~
I think giving it access to the 27ER/ET and bumping it to 12.7 would allow it to become competitive again in uptiers as it faces 4th gens with fox-3s without putting it to 13.0 where it will surely become compressed again by facing majority 13.3-14.0 lobbies
That’s both un-historical and probably more OP given R-77s have the kinematics of a snake eye once their motor runs out.
Its not more OP, if it was the MiG-29 (9-12) and Yak-141 would be 13.0
And again, “Historical” is kind of out of the question at this point.
Both the Yak-141 and MiG-29 (9-12) are ahistorical loadouts along with countless other vehicles in this game.
Edit: Another random vehicle popped into my head, MiG-29N, can’t carry R-77s irl but has access to them in game. Just another example of ahistorical/incompatible loadouts for the purpose of balance.
Counter point, by that same logic Su-27/33 should be 12.7.
Although the Bison can carry 4 R-77s but only 2 R-27s (I think?).
While true I don’t want to see more of it.
Do you truly in good faith believe 4th gen fighters with even better electronics including IRST, much better flight models compared to a 11.0 airframe from the 60s, double the countermeasures, x6 R-27ER x4 R-73 for the 27 or x8 R-27ER and x4 R-73 for the 33 is in any way shape or form comparable to a 3rd gen fighter with x2 R-27 and x2 R-73?
Your logic is extremely flawed when you actually compare the aircraft, their loadouts and their capabilities. Slapping x2 R-27ERs on a MiG-21 doesn’t magically turn it into a 4th gen airframe with over double the missiles.
ERRR, you don’t know what’s in the BISON do you, but my point was if you are going to generalize about the missiles R-27ER/ET are better around missiles then R-77, you trying to read some weird comparison to the SU27/33 to the Bison as over all combat units including missile numbers… yadda yadda, is on you, actually it’s probably partly on me.
Let me clarify, they would not be 13.3 if the R-27 was in any way worse than R-77… the exact comparison should be that they would be a lower BR than the SU-30MK2/MKK,
12.7 may have been a slight exaggeration I’m drinking, sue me.
These dont have R-73s. And 12.7 (and even 13.0 ones) mig29s have vastly inferior radar and rwr on top of that.
When did that happen lol
a long time ago…
RIP me i suppose, i was still living under impression that 141 doesnt have those.
Oh well.
Need to check FM differences first to reevaluate.
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