MI-28NM received DIRCM, protection against all missiles. DEV

[tripod2008]

@141 allen

UV is only for reference and can’t be used as primary tracking.

???

Dual spectral range target tracking seeker

“The detected signal may be negative (a non-radiating target seen against a bright background) or positive (a radiating or reflecting target seen against a dark background). Preferably, The seeker will initially operate in the visual contrast mode until an adequate IR signal is available to home the missile. If a sufficiently IR radiating target is present, the seeker may select and receive in the IR mode.”

@141 allen

It is inaccurate

in what way? When all four quadrant sectors of the detector are receiving equal energy it is pointed at the source.

@141 allen

and when flares are applied the HOJ doesn’t necessarily pick up the correct signal.

Small FoV, and if long time coefficients are introduced into the mapping the impact of flares can be reduced, especially if additional segmentation passes are performed to spatially disambiguate contacts.

@141 allen

Also that just means the centre of mass is missed as the LDIRCM in question is at the bottom of the target.

That why it’s got a proximity fuse, also terminal “diving” maneuvers are not unheard of either, just look at the Redeye.

@141 allen

cause they don’t work otherwise

They do, they just become less effective.

@141 allen

Pixels on IIR is more fragile than you think.

And they are a tiny target to hit a such a distance, don’t forget that Lasers still obey the Inverse-Square law so are significantly effected by distance.

@141 allen

Anyway this is completely down to chance

It’s really not. Engineers tend to know what they are doing.

@141 allen

it’s not like stupid flares have not jammed AIM9X twice in a row

A lot of the processing is done in software so it was probably caused by an improperly configured threat library, and probably not having non simulated data for whatever formulation that was used, or a bug somewhere. It’s not likely to happen again.

[141_allen]

And IIR missiles are 100% effective? no. Against IRCM targets 70% at best. It is down to chance, and the engineers don’t know what they are doing cause everything is top secret, so they don’t know what they are up against any way.

@tripod2008

And they are a tiny target to hit a such a distance, don’t forget that Lasers still obey the Inverse-Square law so are significantly effected by distance.

However again this is down to chance, dependent on range and humidity and stuff like that that affects LDIRCM’s energy transfer onto IIR seeker.

@tripod2008

They do, they just become less effective.

Which means objective achieved for LDIRCM. Especially at sort of 9-10km range.

@tripod2008

That why it’s got a proximity fuse, also terminal “diving” maneuvers are not unheard of either, just look at the Redeye.

141 allen:

Which is hugely energetically inefficient.

@tripod2008

Small FoV

Which makes HOJ the more difficult, as LDIRCM has the potential to fill that seeker.

@tripod2008

When all four quadrant sectors of the detector are receiving equal energy it is pointed at the source.

That is 1. if it is the correct source and 2. much of the sectors would be filled out by LDIRCM and therefor HOJ would thus rely on gradient of IR signal closer to the edge to work that out. Not very accurate and this applies more so nearer the missile to LDIRCM.

@tripod2008

???

That is nothing but a design, there is a reason why no one tested UV missiles, it is basically a fail safe thing much like Strela’s photocontrast mode. Also that sort of LOAL is not used anymore due to excessive need for IFF, which is modernly done predominantly with DL and not UV.

[tripod2008]

@141 allen

the engineers don’t know what they are doing cause everything is top secret

While sure compartmentalization is a thing so not everything that is known is likely to be shared. Foreign Military Exploitation is definitely a thing just look at how far the “Have Idea” / “Constant Peg” program and it’s constituents went and how broadly it trained Top gun graduates.

@141 allen

Especially at sort of 9-10km range.

What system are you thinking of?

there really isn’t that high of a power density at those sorts of ranges.

@141 allen

Which is hugely energetically inefficient.

Source? it does so at the last second, so it really isn’t that much of a waste, and we know that it is effective.

FIM-43 Redeye Surface-to-Air Missile

@141 allen

as LDIRCM has the potential to fill that seeker.

It literally would not matter if it did or not, The quadrant seeker works regardless, by design, it’s conceptually similar to an inverse monopulse seeker functionally.

@141 allen

1. if it is the correct source

If it was not why is the DIRCM system active? or at all relevant to the discussion if it is down to operator error?

@141 allen

2. much of the sectors would be filled out by LDIRCM and therefor HOJ would thus rely on gradient of IR signal closer to the edge to work that out.

You clearly don’t quite understand how it works, I would recommend reading the following passage;

The sum signal corresponds with the antenna beam along center-line of the antenna. The delta signals are pairs of beams that are adjacent to the center-line of the sum antenna beam. The delta beam measurements produce plus or minus values depending upon the quadrant.

Quadrants	Left	Right
Up	Quadrant II: +ΔEl −ΔAz	Quadrant I: +ΔEl +ΔAz
Down	Quadrant III: −ΔEl −ΔAz	Quadrant IV: −ΔEl +ΔAz

@141 allen

Not very accurate

In what way? all it would need to do is turn the gain down, as it approached problem solved

@141 allen

That is nothing but a design

That is literally the FIM-92’s POST seeker, used by a the -92B and later variants.

@141 allen

it is basically a fail safe thing much like Strela’s photocontrast mode.

Unlike the Strela, we have data that it’s functional out to at least 6.5km or so.

• Stinger has incorrect lock range

@141 allen

Also that sort of LOAL is not used

Considering that it’s still in use the concept seems fine, and it’s not really LOAL if it needs to lock on before launch is it?

@141 allen

due to excessive need for IFF

You do get that the Stinger has a integral IFF interrogator, it’s not an issue. And its not like it locks out the trigger anyway.

fm44_18_1.pdf

@141 allen

which is modernly done predominantly with DL and not UV.

It’s a system from the late 80’s not a modern missile what do you expect?

Who knows exactly how the NGSRI will work exactly.

Everything We Learned About Lockheed's QuadStar Missile Aimed At Replacing...

[BeautifulTai_wan]

@141 allen

Also by specifically IR I meant that guy’s comment on type 99 which uses visible light cause it blinds enemy tank gunner.

Who isn’t using a direct vision scope and therefore will only get a flash on their screen, not warcrime eye damage. It’s basically the same concept as these LDIRCM modules except in a significantly less efficient wavelength.

[kingoftigertank]

why does those light make the nose look like sid the sloth

[MythicPi]

@141 allen

UV is only for reference and can’t be used as primary tracking

Yes it can? For example, the titular Mi-28NM uses UV MAWS to direct its LDIRCM. Tracking accuracy is actually a strong point of UV sensors…

Detecting burnt out missiles is not tho, so it shouldnt be able to use its LDIRCM vs burnt out missiles lol (not that it should even work on the missiles it works on)

[EbAR_nN3AA]

I was finally able to hop on and check my ka-52, it does have the LDIRCM, it looks like there’s one between the engines on top and looking at it from the front there’s one next to the right dazzler

[Silversting]

No. It’s just light.

[141_allen]

Yep, only 52M uses LDIRCM I think, and they aren’t in service yet.
Doesn’t mean Gaijin will refrain from adding it, or 52K with 38s.

[Silversting]

@141 allen

Yep, only 52M uses LDIRCM I think

No.

@141 allen

and they aren’t in service yet.

The Ka-52M has been in service for a long time.

[141_allen]

@Silversting

The Ka-52M has been in service for a long time.

No? Contract signed in 2022, not certain to have gone into full service. Unless there is something new.

@Silversting

No.

Yes? Isn’t that part of the upgrade?

[Silversting]

@141 allen

No? Contract signed in 2022, not certain to have gone into full service. Unless there is something new.

In 2023, I saw Ka-52Ms flying on a mission.

@141 allen

Yes? Isn’t that part of the upgrade?

This is not LDIRCM.

Spoiler

[141_allen]

I thought it had L370s.

[UNN_Daedalos]

to add to your point, Some lasers are now being developped to take out commercial drones (plastic)

and while they are getting more compact as tome goes by, they’re still quite bigger than a L370 DIRCM

[BeautifulTai_wan]

Yeah, lasers with the power output to actually destroy materiel at distance are usually quite large. Another example of a similar system is the US prototype Stryker DE-SHORAD system. It’s got a pretty large laser turret on top.

While it is certainly possible to even melt metals like tungsten with a semi-handheld laser, the range at which you can properly transfer all of that energy will be very limited. Focusing the energy output is crucial in actually destroying things rather than dazzling them.

[EbAR_nN3AA]

The 52 in game right now has it though, was just wanting to let you know. I can’t post an image as I’m using my phone and I play Xbox but it has one laser turret by the right dircm when looking at it from the front and possibly one on top in the middle of the engines.
Edit: I do actually think the one in top is a light but the one by the dircm is the laser system

[WereCat888]

Why are you gaslighting yourself like this, literally no one says that the Ka-52 somehow has a third laser DIRCM for some reason, the 2 L-370-5 (the ball DIRCM) are literally the only configuration it’s know to use.
And while some articles say that they can be swapped out for L-370-5L (the one the Mi-28 has) there’s no evidence for it.

You could maybe search for evidence of it having equipped them, as they look very distinct and getting a photo would be the only way for the Ka to ever get LDIRCM as even the new Ka-52M doesn’t use LDIRCM.

[Zannafrancy12]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[naruto24k]

it kinda does look like the 9x explodes on the first flare in the footage. if u look at the footage carefully you can see that the first flare dropped by the su22 suddenly gets brighter/bigger than the other flares.
https://youtu.be/2azWZ4QcrPA?si=JdyL4Ck18o142ceF&t=20 0:20 look at the first flare , it gets bigger in like 0.25 sec ? compared to the other flares ? kinda looks like a small explosion.

[Zannafrancy12]

@naruto24k

that the first flare dropped by the su22 suddenly gets brighter/bigger than the other flares.

thats not even the su22 flaring in all likelyhood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcg8NckWuS0