AH-64D has its correct weapons without going to BR 13.3 with AGM-114Ls.
AH-64E should come with Spikes whenever they finish it, and I hope it’s priority for them.
@MythicPi
DIRCM has been in the game since at least 2023.
There are different standards for missiles gens and nobody can know whatever one meant who made that brochure
https://web.archive.org/web/20240304191652/https://defin.by/en/media/publications/26-11-14/
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Decent chance this source is overestimating the ability of LDIRCM, seeing as
- The document in question es estimating the capabilities of “4th generation” seekers
- We have sources proving LDIRCM to be ineffective as a countermeasure vs imaging seekers
- Diehl specifies the IRIS-T is highly resistant to LDIRCM
That being said, thanks for the info, any idea what the acronyms all mean?
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US Blackhawks, AH-1Z have it, also pretty sure one was tested on the D.
For UK the same DIRCM on 64E is present on some of their H-47’s so it’s possible they buy some for theirs
Standard modern jammer pod stuff bro. A lot of things need it.
Probably banking on customers probably not actually testing it and the fact that if an IRIS-T operator gets in a fight with a LDIRCM equipped enemy the real combat resistance to LDIRCM is going to be the least of their worries
Never thought id see the day I found out who wrote this idiotic statement
Theres been a dev in disguise on these forums all along
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Who even has IRIS-T and LDIRCM and like I said, how likely is it they specifically end up testing it
It’s possible they tested against an older or worse LDIRCM system too. I mean currently both US and China are actively producing them and they both expect to fight modern stuff with IIR seekers, wouldn’t make much sense to invest in a complex and expensive system if it’s already outdated
It’s written in link
GMW - guided missile weapons
IRS - infrared seeker
Second picture btw is specifically includes Mi-28NM LDIRCM, tho can be applied as well to MUSIC, NEMESIS and Boldstroke since it’s claimed to be on par with them.
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- The Germans do, with Hensoldt AMPS.
- The Italians do with MIYSIS.
- The Swedes appear to with Sirius
Those are just quick checks too, I’m sure there are more western allies with LDIRCM that have tested them. Its not like LDIRCM is some super new development nobody but the russians and americans have thought of before…
Theres probably a reason why LDIRCM isnt commonly seen on anything but helicopters, along with some strike aircrafts and the occasional other support aircraft; LDIRCM doesn’t appear to work vs modern imaging seekers, but they work great vs MANPADs, a system you are unlikely to have to worry much about unless you spend extended periods of time at low altitude over potentially hostile areas.
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The issues is probably with speeds of fighters, LDIRCMs are not that rare for civil and cargo planes, and the only fighter with LDIRCM Su-57 uses more complex solution of basically IRST with built in laser jammer so it can have higher accuracy
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GMW, is probably Guided Missile ?Way-finding?
IRS is probably, Infra-Red Suppression, if it was seekers why include the AIM-9L (unless it’s nontonal)
1st gen / Single spectrum is probably, early seekers that use the lower IR air bandgap so have Rear-Aspect only performance (also known as Alpha band or Band I ) a material example would be uncooled PbS detectors. And using basic reticle scanning techniques (Amplitude Modulation)
Dual spectrum receivers probably refers to Frequency Modulation based, All aspect seekers since they are sensitive across both Alpha and Beta (Band II) IR bandgaps. and makes sense as that is going to be by far the most common threat encountered.
False heat targets is obviously flares
Adalted False Heat targets is probably slow-rise Flares, or other advanced compositions.
Incoherent Modulated sources are DIRCM systems that use vapor arc lamps and other hot materials for their IR source like the ALQ-144 / -157.
Coherent is the Laser -DIRCM
These classifications don’t really make sense as the Stinger POST seeker for example could have a case made to fall into the 2nd ,3rd and 4th generation of missiles simultaneously.
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IIR MANPADS exist, and US has considered it in the past and there is active stinger replacement program which I’m pretty sure uses an IIR seeker. So things like that would be considered when making the new LDIRCM for AH-64E’s and Z-10’s. I’m sure the Chinese have their own advanced MANPADS programs as well
Stingers (FIM-92B and later) use Pseudo-Imaging (Rosette Scan) seekers with the POST seeker.
This is one of the two entrants for the Next-Generation Short-Range Interceptor program of record.
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While some manpads do in fact use IIR (Mistral 3 has been using one since the mid-2015s), most manpads in circulation today remain old iglas and stingers, so equipping a heli with DIRCM still makes sense even if it has a reduced efficiency against IIR seekers
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DIRCM is not whats debated here. Its not effective against IIR Missile. What is Debated Is LDIRCM which could only be effective if it can physically damage the seeker with the laser. I
No offense but this is a stupid take.
Which is not possible based on established metrics (according to [Volume 7 of the Infrared Handbook, 3.3.5.1 Detector Damage] needs about 63kW to be delivered) and known power draw President-S uses 3.5kVA, assuming 100% of said power was transmitted and a full duty cycle that means it would take ~18 seconds to destroy a generic seeker. and with a stinger for example self destructing at 17 seconds, it would take too long to be useful.
And considering it’s rated for ranges between 500 through 5000m The stinger has a time of flight to said ranges of ~1.3-11.7 seconds.
So it should be obvious that that’s not how it functions.
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For all those thinking that LDIRCM is at the point where it can actually function as a pseudo-DEW and fry seekers or thermal imaging arrays (yes, the APS thing on the Type 99 tank is basically LDIRCM); it takes both a significant amount of power and a significant amount of volume to produce a laser that can both output the required power to damage something quickly and focus it at multiple distances in order to effectively transfer that power into the target. Doesn’t matter if your laser has 300w of power when your target receives one ten-thousandth of that due to atmospheric scattering (something especially bad at sea level with dense air) and incorrect focus.
And none of these systems have the volume to fry anything meaner than a black balloon, if allowed to use their laser on them for a very long period of time. Not even the huge LDIRCM systems in use on cargo aircraft and airliners flying in and out of dangerous airports have the power or volume dedicated to actually damaging missiles.
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Damaging missiles and damaging a few pixels on the IR seeker are two very different things, however both might achieve the same thing: the missile to not hit the protected target. Also side effect is forcing HOJ and that is not ideal anyway.
No it isn’t? It’s targeted at your eyes not your thermals lol. Your eyes can’t withstand much more than a flashbang. LDIRCM is specifically IR targeted and it is a different story otherwise.