No need to guess
Idf commander said it can stand all threats in the region
Which is at least ke w
And u mentioned kornets
Merk known for stopping kornets at least from the front and in the game it cant
We talking about jp not some small cc but sure
Without specifying anything. You can say this to any tank for any nation. Just because the IDF (hell, maybe I’d believe it if it was the manufacturer) says it, doesnt mean it is. For example the 80 ton Merk came out of no where with no documentation stating this. These are literally just buzzwords, which the IDF loves to use
This is an assumption with no confirmation or specific details like above
I’m saying this for every one of them, no matter if big or small, bringing up sources like documentation if you want to claim something like that is a must
The claim of it surviving a Kornet from the front, while I can somewhat understand this, the sources are rather mixed
If youre talking about this image of the frontal armor hit of a Kornet, from what I can find, most sources don’t even specify the charge, meanwhile the rest (from sources who I’d honestly not say can be trusted I wont lie) say it was from a Al Yassin 105
If you mean this image, then yea, some do say its a Kornet, however the penetration makes it rather suspicious. The claim of it being a Kornet started off from…Reddit. A different post says it was from a RPG-29, which I guess is more believable considering the hit
Then there’s people claiming it could survive modern APFSDS rounds, which with this armor?
I would highly doubt it.
The only area which I can understand being somewhat good against KE, would be the turret, as it has ARMOR SHIELD KE and is known to lower penetration effectiveness of APFSDS by a good amount, around half last time I checked
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https://yadlashiryon.com/combat/merkava/
This is official idf tank museum
Clearly talking about merks stopping the kornets
Note this articale is on m4a/b
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And why is that? The old transmission that did not get an actual upgrade for several decades and still being put on the newest Russian tanks? or the huge amount of Relikt all over the tank that literally prevent it from dying by several kind of munitions like Mavs,Hellfires…etc
Crazy how this guy acts like T90M is bad while it’s literally modeled super accurate, maybe call whoever designed the tank and decided to keep the old soviet transmission?
But go ahead and block whoever shares a different opinion from yours just like how you did countless times.
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"Four years after it began receiving the Merkava Mark 4, the entire 401st Brigade and its training system are based on these tanks.
The brigade was on the front lines of the Second Lebanon War, and underwent a significant baptism of fire with the new tank. The Merkava Mark 4 tanks were a target for the more advanced anti-tank missiles used by Hezbollah, which had the highest accuracy and penetration capacity (for example, the “Cornet” missile). Some of the tanks were indeed damaged and the brigade suffered casualties and losses, but the dry data that was examined and studied in depth indicates that in the Lebanon War, the second tank was not as it may have been portrayed in the media.
The tank is significantly better against anti-tank missiles than in all previous conflicts, even though the missiles then had a much lower capability."
This just proves further that it isn’t stopping them, as casualties are reported and (of course) damage. And it’s not specified where it got hit either.
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If the merks stopped korneta even if not all of them
u can understand that the kornets that penned the tanks were probably a side shot and the kornets that got stopped where from the front
This is, once again, an assumption. That’s why I literally said “And it’s not specified where it got hit either.”. No where is it said in the photo you provided if it tanked one from a specific angle anywhere.
Now that I think of it, I don’t think any tank can survive a Kornet being shot from the side unless you intentionally add additional equipment for testing to see what can be used as protection
I never said it can stand from the side(at least without aps)
But u must read between the lines and estimate what the tank can stop and make it somewhat realistic and balanced
That would be an interesting discussion between the people and the Merkava engineers after Israel loses a battle… People : why did we lose ? Engineers: the enemy used tanks !!
Haha 😆
I’d actually to make a bug report to remove Merkava’s apfsds, as we all know, Israel is planning to never fight against tanks, ever. so why carry armor penetrator ? I want to propose this new shell :
Flechette.
This is much more realistic, thousands of little darts…
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A tool is only as good as it’s user… and the managment of 2nd Lebanon war was not good… tank columns were ambushed in the hill side from 3 k away they hit mainly side shots they had diagrams where to hit…
Conversation with gemini :
Only 4 crew members of all merk 4 died on the conflict ? Are you sure ?
Yes, based on the information from the search results, it appears that 4 Merkava Mark IV tank crew members died in the 2006 Second Lebanon War.
To reiterate the specific instances:
- 1 crew member died in a Merkava Mark IV that was destroyed by a landmine.
- 3 crew members died in another Merkava Mark IV that was hit by an ATGM.
While other Merkava models (Mk. 2 and Mk. 3) also sustained casualties, the specific information for the Merkava Mark IV indicates these 4 fatalities.
** By the way, second lebanon war was 20 years ago… By guess is that the armor changed quit a bit
Any 1 can confirm this ?
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Becarefull of what u wish😂
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@Just_Baron crazy how your thread got shut down for asking about anything related with the accepted report about the merkava armor. Then get reverted back here to the echo chambers. This almost feels hopeless
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Question to Israeli friends out there, can any of you is able/willing to go to the Latrun armored core tank museum, in there there are 2, 300 mm steel plates, one regular steel, the other is “improved armor”, used as added armor on merkava mark 1.
On each plate there are 2 hits, one from Sagger ATGM I believe, the other is from APFSDS.
The regular steel one gets penetrated, the one with the improved armor stops both penetrators half way through.
If some one can go and stick his fingers or other parts in the holes to take measurements, we will have an actual concrete measurements (with angles, thickness) of armor performance of armor used in the 90s against kinetics and chemical rounds.
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Rly?
I never saw that and i been there few times
I will try to remember it if i will go anytime soon on this summer
Yea, there are also videos on you tube that I can’t seem to find now
It is near a cut in half m60 maybe, on the right side, there are to large plaques
** If some one decided to go there so we can have irrefutable proof, they need to go with some idea of how to actual measure it, and they need to post unedited video of the measurements.
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I think the idf takes alot of them down
I couldnt even find a normal video of merkava test drive
Gaijin: “Namer Tsrikhon and Namer 30 are the same, but TSRK has Trophy, so we must increase the BR.”
Also Gaijin: “Even though the Merkava Mk.4M has Trophy, it performs the same as the 4B, so we increase the 4B and LIC BR.”
tf is this company on
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The problem with the patent in bug report is that it’s explaining in general the types of armor and then explains a different type NxRA that is using gas expansion to as the energy source for the reaction…
Then we come and say, look there are explosives in the armor from these photos… Which is fine it tells us that there are explosives, but it is not directly related to the patent that is talking about NxRA…
The only thing that is connects the merkava and the patent, is that it was published by Rafael and they define for the first time ( I believe at least) the word SLERA.
The thing is that we know that israel does not use this kind of armor (NxRA) as they won’t allow rafael to patent it for commercial use…
Also this patent is 20 years old already
So if you want to make a bug report what we should do, in my opinion,
1 - Find examples of any modern MBT of which they took a creative liberty and made a decision not based on actual data. That will show them that they are not alway factually correct, and they do take educated guess.
2. Explain with as much photos and where you can add measurements, the reason why it would be safe to assume a certain expected protection level from the merkava, from it’s doctrine, history, documents we can find ecc…
The patent by it self does not give us a lot to work with
This entire reply has nothing to do with the Protection Modifiers being unrealistically low. The bug report does not entirely rely on the Patent. Modern Composite Armor that’s barely over 10 years old does not have the same protection level as rubber.