Hahahah, I still remember when I made this years ago.
Beware, those multipliers are outdated! Gaijin did buff them, but…
I mean, it went from 190mm KE to 300mm KE, so it’s not like it really changes anything, lmfao.
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This is exactly what Merkava Mk.4 should be.
A fortress on tracks.
We all have seen the tank in action; it literally struggles to move on its own, lmao. The engine must run at comically high RPMs for the thing to gently move forward.
Because, as the IDF has officially stated over the years, the thing weighs 80 tons… and it weighs 80 tons FOR A REASON.
Gaijin’s current reasoning is that “it weighs too little for the amount of composite it has; therefore, the composite must be weak”.
That’s why proving the thing weighs 80 tons may actually turn it into the modern MAUS it is famously known to be.
My personal estimates are 700mm KE for the turret and 550mm KE for the hull (not counting powerplant or bulkheads), giving it KE multipliers equivalent to that of other modern MBTs ingame. Right now, they aren’t even 1979 Chobham-level, it’s ridiculous.
Topic I made a few years ago about the hull;
Currently, Merkava Mk.4’s hull armor has the following composition:
70mm Composite screen (0.16 KE)
50mm RHA
50mm External composite armor with NERA elements (0.10 KE)
((70x0.16)+(50)+(50x0.10)/cos(75))= 255.
Apparently, Merkava Mk.4’s advanced composite armor elements (0.10 and 0.16) have lower KE effectiveness than RUBBER-FABRIC SCREENS! (0.20)
This makes no sense in any single way. 656mm LOS of advanced composite armor provide 255mm KE (actually, values range more from 190 to 300 for some reason, but average is 200-240). This weight inefficiency is unbelievable for such a heavily armored and advanced tank.
THIS is what Merkava Mk.4’s hull armor should be, by using, you know, MODERN, advanced composite armor-level multipliers, instead of values literally WORSE THAN RUBBER:
70mm Composite screen (0.65 KE)
50mm RHA
50mm External composite armor with NERA elements (0.85 KE)
((70x0.85)+(50)+(50x0.65)/cos(75))= 548.
Now that’s more like it for such a modern and heavy tank whose’s existence’s entire purpose is to be highly survivable thanks to high levels of protection.
Before I am asked to provide official sources proving that this armor is, in fact, stronger than rubber: what are YOUR sources to say that this composite armor should be WEAKER THAN RUBBER? Can we not just solve this just by logic and well educated figures this time?
I am so fed up by modern, advanced composite armors being ARTIFICIALLY nerfed to phisically impossible levels (I repeat, weaker than RUBBER), only for Gaijin to then demand and require accurate official documents in order to fix that made-up nonsense.
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Didn’t gaijin once estimate 900+ KE for the turret lmao
3 years ago on the Dev server when Wind of Change update was about to drop:
My assumption is that Gaijin may have had a slight overreaction to the Merkava being stupidly OP on the dev server, so they nerfed it a bit too much. Also if you take a look at the frontal turret composite array, there’s a green layer that I have never seen in X-RAY inspector in War Thunder (possibly custom armor/modifiers that were removed?)
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As a starting point Gaijin has to increase the multipliers to be equivalent with other nation’s composites at the very minimum.
When you see that a modern, complex and effective array of composites has a similar to equivalent protection to that of rubber sheet, you know someone really f*cked up.
(Gaijin’s internal logic is skewed beyond belief so I doubt this would get fixed).
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I’ve never seen that before, that’s interesting! I also never knew the side skirts had modelled armour inside them at one time
It does weigh more, as we’ve discussed before, and I proved it with an official IDF statement lol
the Arietes got this treatment too. The weight of the WAR armor kit got increased by like 5 tons. Any guesses as to the level of effective KE protection it provides, Ill give you a hint, WAR was specifically designed to counter KE threats
Answer: 18mm
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To be perfectly honest except the Russian tanks all other tanks just say ‘NERA’ or even just ‘composite armour’, whilst all the Russian tanks are like made of ten different layers of materials. I know IRL they all are but Gaijing adding it for 1 nation only still annoys me a bit. Anyhow this will end up being something quite similar to ZTZ99A armour/model rework, although that too is getting apparently buffed. Would this make it more annoying to kill frontally cause French/non Chally 3 British players find it almost impossible to kill as the spall almost never kills both commander and gunner? I think they ight stop it at 500 cause of 1. long rod APFSDS have higher effect against highly tilted armour, 2. this prevents default DM23s, 3BM42s and 125-1s from penetrating but allows all the modification rounds to pen.
Gaijin doesn’t give a fck about armour changes for most tanks tbh. Only a select few get correct or jus entirly made up armour thicknesses and the rest will probably stay where it is. Cuz why fix problems when you can add lazy content right.
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“NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ONLY NON-NATO MBTS CAN HAVE ANY SEMBLANCE OF ARMOUR WHILE MAINTAINING MOBILITY AAAAAAHHHH” - Someone at Gaijin
Source: I was at their favourite coffee shop and overheard them talking
Gaijin’s understanding of modern SLERA and Composite armour is sorely lacking. It certainly seems like the amour of the T-series is only good because it incorporates a fuckload of RHA and HHA. Just look at how hard it was to get the Leo 2A7V’s composite add on fixed (never mind the internal composites that are still 1980s tech). It was like pulling wisdom teeth.
The NERA and SLERA of every modern MBT is severely underperforming, and my best guess for Gaijin’s endless excuses as to why are because they’re afraid of making balance decisions that could change the dynamic of the game, and the identity that nations bring to the table. For example, would anyone research the USSR if their top tier was all leagues behind NATO and China on the ground and in the air? Probably. But Gaijin doesn’t seem to think so. They also don’t want to make a large change, and then have to roll it back. Looks bad, you know. I appreciate their caution, but I do think that in this case, it’s negatively effecting the realism of the game.
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Well I mean, there’s also the Leopard 2A7V tbf… but yeah, the Leclerc, Ariete, Merkava, Abrams, Type 10, and Challenger 2 all have underperforming armor values that desperately need to be adjusted…
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I think what happened to ztz99a will put that to rest. Yes, the model has changed, but everything has changed for the worse.
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Are you sure Gaijing will adjust them to the good? ZTZ99A got remodelled to lose 200mm hull armour to 480mm and receive a neck of 350 which were 690mm and 600mm respectively. I doubt Gajing will repair it quickly but just so you know if you put enough evidence into the reports they will fix eventually (have to) I guess.
I have a feeling someday they’ll all be re-visited and adjusted at some point. Just a matter of time.
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The Russian tanks that have “detailed” armor use declassified layouts… good luck making an acurate model for most modern mbts.
I mean even through data mine we still haven’t worked out how the stupid ZTZ99A nerf went about since there are 0 code to suggest a nerf but the truth is now that it can be penned by 3BM46, when it used to be 152mm APFSDS proof. No thickness change, the only thing is that they said they wanted the composite equivalence to be higher but somehow resulted in a nerf lol.
They acknowledge the 700-800 value, but even then there isnt nearly enough info for them to have an accurate internal armor like the tseries have…
