Nope.
Ariete (P) has a 6.4 second reload on average, not 5.3 sec as that only applies to later variants.
Challenger only has a 5.3 sec reload on the first four rounds, after that it drops to a pretty awful 7.1 sec.
It’s identical to L26, DM23, L23A1, etc. etc.
They all use the longrod penetrator preset.
They’re not.
I’d love to show it, but the game’s apparently drunk again and the Armour Analysis tool is showing 3BM-42 cannot penetrate the LFP of an M1 at any distance.
mb i didnt see the thing with the ariete but i have a personal hatred towards m774 and will take the challenger 1 every single time over the abrams
The Leopard 2A4s have a similar armor profile with the gunner cheek being the weakspot on the Leopard, the Challanger Mk 3 has a superior armor profile and the Ariete (P) is a literal prototype. Want to also note how all off their default/Tier I APFSDS (DM23/L23) literally outperforms the Tier IV Abrams APFSDS (M774) by 20+mm? But at the end of the day, why are ANY of them fighting literal modern day APFSDS in a modern day MBT? The newest one of that set is the Challenger 1 Mk 3 from 1986. It can’t be because of “mobility” when the Challenger 1 Mk 3 has similar mobility stats as the T-90A.
Penetration capability ABSOLUTELY matters when you can’t penetrate the enemy whereas they can point-click you anywhere frontally… That’s like arguing a .22 is better than a 50BMG in combat because you can shooter faster.
compares them to light tanks which have poor armor and poor ammunition capability but make up by being fast Do you read or just want to argue? The Leopard 2A4 has a similar armor profile but has a superior round. Ariate P appears to be a similar playstyle, but I don’t own it and rarely see it so I can’t speak on it. The Challenger 1 Mk 3 has a far superior turret protection against KE so it plays more like a MBT compared to the rest (as it can reliably defeat MANGO).
looks at the average being 0.9 Brother, have you played this BR recently? I know the answer is no via statshark, but like seriously, it’s BAD.
Or maybe it’s because it’s first generation ERA designed to counter RPG-7s and provides 0 upgrade to the protection capability as HEATFS at that BR punches through it anyway. Not to mention, I also pointed out how it doesn’t get historical wartime ammunition and you casually ignored that bit of information. Versus Russian MBTs designed up to 2 decades after a tank was retired with ammunition designed 40 years after they were retired while said tanks are limited to non-wartime ammunition.
So why does the T-90A get 3BM60 at 11.0?
Ah yes, the thing NATO tanks get in general and a Gen 1 thermal that’s literally 500x300 resolution… such an advantage in the small maps they put us on and where literally most engagement distances are sub 700 yards so thermals are effectively just an extra modification to drop RP into. Not to mention, Gaijin doesn’t model thermals anywhere near properly and instead makes everything black/white hot with set resolutions for consistency throughout nations. So wanna explain how Russia is steamrolling NATO while they are just so terrible in comparison? But wait… that would require you to play them recently. And literally none of those statistics you stated matter when it literally gets penned through the front at 2000 yards with 0 difficulty…
Tbf, the Ariate (P) is the prototype vehicle. Why Gaijin added it to the TT and not a premium is beyond me. Then again, Gaijin’s use of TT v premium makes no sense as you end up with better/same tanks in the premium as the TT and not the other way around to incentivize playing the TT (we all know why).
Fun fact, I have no idea what you’re going on about “3BM42 cannot penetrate the LFP of an M1 at any distance”. Also, if you punch through the fuel tank, it spalls on the backside because the internal wall that’s modeled but, “coincidentally”, isn’t the case for T-series tanks and instead creates 0 spall.
I came to the conclusion this game gives the absolute bias to Russia and eastern vehicles in general on purpose, for whatever reason.
That’s why I’m laughing about how every other NATO MBT is getting full detail DMs in the dev server atm but the Russian ones aren’t. I mean hell, even the BMPT has it modeled currently in game so why not the T-series?
Obvious reason, the bias.
Maybe they’ll model t-series basket in 15 years, we don’t know. Let’s hope.
Don’t forget.
"We want to note that important elements such as electrics and hydraulics are all located in and around the basket area and all provide some power to the drives and turret in different ways. These and other elements fill almost the entirety of a tank’s interior outside of the crew operating areas. The floor of the turret basket is not just a metal sheet to walk on, but instead houses all kinds of electrics and hydraulics with means to connect them to the hull.
In addition to the point above about why baskets affect turret rotation, damage to the basket can physically deform its elements and prevent normal functioning of the turret drives"
You know what, I’ve never even thought about where that would be located (regarding the autoloader motor). That’s a great point
Brother, Chally1 Mk3 looks cool and rad - sound good on papers → hop on 10.7 match → Geez mf Chris, what a fucking dog shit BR.
"some mfs told me that if I cope Russian Bias that hard why wouldn’t you use Indian T90s to press W and win kekw…mfs think one T90s can win the match against it own kind while the whole NATO front lines fall like autumn leaves.
If it’s at 10.7, it’s okay. However, since 10.7 really doesn’t exist it gets sucked up into 11.3+ where there’s top tier ammo running around. Gaijin really needs to start putting hard break into the TT
Its 10.7 and i’m OK too. But that BR was broken due to compression.
It can be used both ways.
Thanks for agreeing with me lol.
Why would you push someone ?
Use your amazing game sense and predict everything, otherwise it’s a skill issue.
Once again, just because a vehicle was made in 2000 doesn’t mean it’s any better than one made in 1992 for example.
And AMBT has KE-W at 10.0, so let’s give everyone at 10.0+ KE-W equivalents ?
That logic is really flawed.
What an incredibly contrived reason to dismiss this disadvantage. So the Ariete having poor protection is totally fine because it’s name says it’s a prototype?
So if the M1 were renamed to XM1 (FSED), you’d instantly be fine with it’s current implementation?
Want to also note how the Abrams out-reloads all of them right off the bat?
Because that’s what’s balanced.
It’s pros and cons, and this is about the last time I’ll explain this because I’m starting to become a broken record by this point.
If you don’t have the ability to grasp a concept as simple as balance through advantages and disadvantages, you’re never going to get it no matter how many times I explain it.
Your mistake is assuming vehicles in War Thunder must always use wartime ammunition, they do not.
And this isn’t even relevant to the Abrams given that it already uses the correct historical ammunition.
M1 Abrams entered service in 1980, M774 (1979) is the correct ammunition for that date and M833 did not enter service until 3 years after the M1’s introduction.
You’ve also conveniently dodged my point concerning the IPM1 with M900 being available.
‘‘Trust me bro’’
I guess my M1A2 sitting on a 65% winrate from the past 2-3 months of play is just a wild exception and major coincidence.
Which I have.
You just haven’t looked very well.
In fact, the VAST majority of my games have been at 10.0+.
Skill Issue™
I bet that if we were discussing mid-tiers, you’d be the type of player that complains about the M4A3 76 being able to be lolpenned by Panthers.
Please read posts correctly before replying.
I did not state 3BM-42 cannot penetrate the LFP. Read it again.
Except it isn’t. One is watching out for someone to peak while the other one is you yourself peaking. One relies on thinking of where the enemy is and hitting them before or as they peak (which is what I’m talking about), the other is reacting fast enough when coming around a corner and if your armor holds up to a hit when you peak (which is what you’re talking about). Again, apples and oranges in situation there bud.
Just because you know where someone is/coming from, doesn’t mean you can’t be aggressive. That’s where armor comes into play (which the M1 lacks in comparison).
It’s two MBTs… this isn’t a comparison of a light tank v heavy tanks scenario. Why is it balanced that the M1 from 1980 is limited to the 1980 round when it had TWO war-time APFSDS that it doesn’t get in game versus the T-90A from 2005 with a 2016 APFSDS designed to counter Abrams variants designed a over a decade after the M1 left active service?
Why not? The T-90A gets 12.7BR ammunition at 11.0 fighting tanks 10.7BR tanks limited to 9.3BR APFSDS.
Nah, if you don’t know where everyone is at all times it’s obviously a skill issue.
You don’t need the increased turret traverse speed to react to unexpected situations as you obviously know everything already, thus you won’t get shot at and armor is meaningless.
Just peek him and shoot at him faster buddy, armor is irrelevant.
You see how it gets messy when everyone starts handwaving things in a discussion ?
Because balancing isn’t being done with just tank/shell introduction dates lol.
Tanks have more things to offer than just their shells and armor. Failing to understand this is really concerning.
So lets give everyone at 9.3 3BM42 equivalents because ZTZ96 has that.
Lets give everyone at 9.0 1200mm pen tandem missiles as AFT09 has that.
List could just goes on and on…
It’s actually really nice that our game isn’t being balanced by some very narrow minded people.
I personally don’t understand why Gaijin added it as it’s a pre-production hull to test the vehicle and equipment before final production. Though, apparently they’re getting an overhaul with their DM this update so we’ll see how that changes things. Though I’m curious on what you’re arguing about prototype names and not the discussion at hand. At least it gets 120mm DM33 with 481mm of pen so it can at least hit back. Hell, the Tier I APFSDS 120mm DM23 outperforms the M1’s Tier IV M774.
Cool? Doesn’t really mean anything if your shot fails to pen most MBTs unless you hit specific spots and you’ve got the armor profile of a wet noodle that can be punched through anywhere.
Uh huh… love how any time people want to make the game more balanced for NATO players on specific tanks, it’s “we can’t do that because balance” but then we get things like the BMPT with a chain gun that’s not a continuous belt and how Russia isn’t getting a detailed DM on any of their MBTs next update but EVERY NATO country is.
So why does the T-90A get 3BM60? Limit it to 3BM42 as that’s a good enough round. Also, I just didn’t care as the discussion is about the M1 and not the IPM1. Congrats on knowing another tank in game and that not many people run it (124k games v the 2.3M for the M1A1s). The M1 has a worse armor profile or do you think the Ariete (P) and Ariete should be the same BR seeing how that follows the same logic.
Oh wow, comparing the M1 at 10.7 to the M1A2 at 12.0… totally the same tank and experience…
In the last year and some change, you’ve had 12 matches with the T-90A and 0 with the M1 Abrams. I wouldn’t exactly say that’s “playing them a lot”.
Or maybe the fact the 76mm was designed to counter heavier targets to include the Panzer V? They’re literally direct competitors in WW2. Unlike the T-90A and M1 Abrams… y’all really don’t know how to actually compare situations do you?
We already have that in Bhishma and it’s at 10.7.
And date of introduction should be the balancing factor here?
