they straight up ACT like they know as much a primary source they keep making assumptions about design specifications they have no way of knowing and keep ignoring actual evidence.
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One day I saw a bird doing a barrel roll. He was obviously using the bang bang method and could not achieve more than 3G of average G load. Thus, using this very scientific method, I believe none of the Manpad should be able to pull more than 3G, as both the Manpads and bird had wings, thus they can be directly compared
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You’re right! There is more evidence that it could be faster than 5 seconds with an Ace crew. Their own expert interview shows this. You’re not making the point you want here bud
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Most of the german a-a missiles on top tier are a work of fiction. Stop making everything about muh ru bias, does more harm than good at this point. There is no excuse by gaijin to claim historical accuracy and do such shit, and any double standard
I tried searching about it too, but sadly I must conclude Gaijin is right in that case. Stinger only uses one set of rotating fins, the other 2 being fixed. You can see from pictures as well (though not very well) that for 2 sets of fins (in the T-shaped slots) there is no room for rotation, while the other 2 have an extra (more circular) cutout made for them.
Additionally:
from a DTIC report: Stinger Post Hybrid Simulation: Design Description and Users’ Manual
And:
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from “Critical Technology Events in the Development of the Stinger and Javelin Missile Systems” by John Lyons, Duncan Long, and Richard Chait
I suppose the latter can be confirmed by pictures of a stinger missile on launch:
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So I suppose we shouldn’t waste too much time trying to justify the Gs with that reasoning. I am still researching and trying to understand the exact workings of the stinger missile to verify the reasoning of the blog. But this is just to clear up the confusion on the fins. However, I think the Mistral might have a case going for it that it does use 4 fins. Which with some logic could get either 18Gs then, or 22G average (?) if it also still rolls.
The WT model uses 4 of the same fin slots, all with circular cutout at the front which would allow for fin rotation. Not sure how accurate that is though.
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Mistral 3 looks to have 4 idential slots as well, which could suggest that the earlier mistrals work similar?
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That would make sense to me that the mistral at least has room for having 4 mechanised winglets, as the missile is noticeably bigger than the stinger and Igla I believe. Then again, I wholly think this response is partly some (not very well done) research from the devs on the Igla, and partly some massive amount of copium to explain why they can’t accept primary source that could potentially massively buff western techs compared to their Russian equivalents. Now again, @DirectSupport made a response that does not require the use of 4 mechanised wings, just like @LeGrandSarrazin and @BeautifulTai_wan (BTW I love you guys, you are the GOATs in this thread). Thus, the devs explanation for the stinger is also ass as far as I am concerned.
All in all, the generally higher G loads that are stated for the Mistral compared to the Stinger might very well be explainable thanks to this as well, even it the reasoning for how 12G is simply not realistic does not revolve around that
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That explains a lot!
The best I could find was a diagram from some weapons employment manual that listed the control fin section simply as ‘control surfaces’
Quite significanlty yes. Now that does make me wonder how the TY-90 got its 20Gs. Sure the TY-90 isn’t a MANPAD by name, but it a very similar size and weight to the Mistral last time i checked. It does have 4 moving fins, but the fin size is very small as well, comparable to MANPADS. I mean, if I can also use the “similarity” argument Gaijin is using…
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What do you mean? They clearly said “experts” feel this so it must be true no?
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TY-90 has fixed external fins, which means there’s more room inside the control section for servos
So, TLDR. There is absolutely no way that the west (which is usually 30 years ahead of the soviet) could make a missile that was better. Therefore, we are taking any and all reports of western missiles performing better than this as false information, despite multiple sources stating otherwise
3G down, 7-9G more to go.
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Gaijin are honestly asking for another up rising at this point because they are clearly showing that they are bias against NATO from Abrams, leopard 2 and now NATO manpads and a can only assume there going to do the same to chally 2 which is honestly is just going to deepen the confirmation that they are NATO biased !!
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Does that have any significant impact on the performances compared to the mistral design ?
Sorry This forum layout keeps beating me up
You referencing a 1983 Document -https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA130027.pdf
While also referencing partial 2006 document explaining the in some detail the upgrades made over the years. - https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA454087.pdf
Just saying we are not using 1983 tech in what they claim is the FIM-92E or K models. Though an argument is being made that they need to change the K in-game to a J model as the K improvements include Data-Link capabilities
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I meant that, as according to the 2006 document, that 2 sets of fins (the ones that can move) are deployed earlier, and 2 fixed ones deploy later in flight. The pic of the launch shows that is plausible as only two fins are visibly deployed. I know there are 4 fins in total, but only 2 of them move apparently.
Sure, fair to say these are older sources. But I think the 20G source is also an equally old one. I believe it mentioned the basic Stinger even (FIM-92A), which shows that even with 1 set of maneuvering fins it can do 20G.
Anyways, for all we know, we know nothing about the newer variants. And I sadly can’t find anything about them either, no official documentation or study or whatever. It doesn’t look to me either that much has changed other than the seeker and some guidance logic. Cramming 4 servos in such a small missile seems unlikely, but of course not impossible in this day and age. But I don’t read improved maneuverability anywhere either. I would also really like to get the datalink for the K, but I have no concrete evidence for it either. So best sources are on the older versions really…
One thing that Gaijin could work on is actually implementing the UV seeker part of the Stinger. Whatever Gaijin says, they don’t have it actually modelled. At least there is enough evidence for it.
Yeah, Ty90 is nothing like manapds, its just a really small conventional air to air with your standard control fins. It functions the same as sidewinders r73 etc and does not roll.
tbf R73 is yet on another class, as it is thrust vectoring. Also, TY90 only has 4 control fins in the front. Is it the same for the rest of the AAMs in the game ? If not, then the calculations made by the devs (from my understanding) should still apply, as it would still be closely related to the mistral in dimension and fin size (although by having larger servo it could potentially pull harder on the fins)
What i mean is, its not derived from rolling body manpads and is instead a fully fledged air to air missile. It has 4 moveable control fins which are larger proportional to the size of the missile than mistral
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