He probably says “B…but… Brit Phantoms are having SPEY!!!” while overestimating Agile Eagle’s bad parts.
He believes F-4K/M is the best 12.0 Phantom for decades because of the Spey engine, (which cannot compensate/or barely compensate for inferior missile parts compared to F-4J/S.)
I reckon I argued against him last year with a similar argument.
This first point is pretty weak, and I suspect those six likes came from people who skimmed through everything instead of actually reading it.
Well, decompression is theoretically a better option, though. What if Top Rank BR is 17.0-ish instead of being 14.7 BR? All of these phantoms could be placed in proper BR without changing anything. :/
The problem is that Gaijin decompress things way too slowly.
How many years have passed since F-86A-5 was sent down to 8.0BR?
How many months after Su-30MK or F/A-18 was added?
How many months have passed since F-15A got buffed down to 12.7BR and started to steamroll almost everything in downtier?
Decompression is never coming when it is really needed.
That is why we are here.
It’s actually a bigger issue than you might think. Everything from 8.0 and above needs decompression in both Ground and Air battles. BRs below 8.0 are almost perfect.
You can fight the XM-1 in an 8.0 vehicle in War Thunder. The XM-1 has a two-plane stabilizer, excellent mobility, decent armour that can stop almost every round found at 8.0, and it has thermals. If you want to destroy your stats play 8.0.
I feel like Gaijin is either worried that decompression will increase queue times, or they simply don’t care. At this point, I think it’s the latter.
I’m not willing to wait another two years for something to happen. They’ll keep adding new battle ratings for modern aircraft and tanks while continuing to ignore everything below them. By the time they finally implement decompression, it might not even be done properly.
The AMX-50 (TO90/930) and Char 25t pretty much tells you how much they care about the game.
On second thoughts move the F-4J(UK) up to 13.7, it’s too busted!
I know they’re all terrible and I agree that they need to be buffed, just not in the exact way you proposed.
Premiums being identical to tech tree aircraft are fine (and I’d even encourage it), but ideally you shouldn’t have 2 identical TT aircraft in the same tree. There should atleast be some difference between them, and a loadout difference is a good way of doing that.
Probably because they were sent at 1-2am.
That’s fine, and the vast majority of players who own it, including myself, want this buff. If you buy the aircraft during a sale and play it, you’ll 100% agree with me.
Having almost identical premium vehicles is actually a good thing, especially at higher tiers, because it allows more unique vehicles to be added to the regular tech trees instead.
Both aircraft would benefit from these improved loadouts, not only from a gameplay perspective but also historically. The AIM-9L was the primary short-range air-to-air missile used by the F-4J(UK) when it entered service in 1984, and not giving it and the FGR.2 access to the AIM-9LS is similar to leaving out the additional armour on the Challenger MK.3 and Challenger 2. Someone should make a post about the missing additional armour on the Challenger DS. @Ion_492 It’s genuinely not working, sorry mate. I just did [Gaijin Please] Add the Additional Armour Package to the Challenger DS
I did not said that.
I said it was used when it came in service. You can see in your screenshots the F-4C and F-4E said to be fighter bombers.
The F-4C was produced by McDonnell Douglas from 1963 to 1966
The F-4E was introduced in 1968, then have been converted to the F-4G Wild Weasel V from 1975
US was involved in the Vietnam between 1965 and 1973.
So yes, I come back saying
F-4J (interceptors and fighter) from '66 to '72, then got upgraded as F-4S was a try to make it again a good dogfighter, but giving slats and better engine wasn’t making it again competitive. The F-4S flew for USN up until the Phantom’s retirement in the late 1980s as soon as another carrier based fighter was possible to replace it. (F-14A).
There is a big difference. You are pointing out that it is not primarily used as … When I’m saying that the F-4 wasn’t used anymore (at all).
And yes, Su-30MK’s are multirole, not purely air superiority fighters.
It is like it’s predecessor : the F-100 was employed as a dogfighter in the Vietnam, then the role as been transfered to the F-4’s, and the F-100’s were used as CAS.
Or like the Mig-21. Egypt, Syria, Vietnam post-war, vand others used aging MiG-21 fleets mainly for point-defense interception, since it was outclassed in pure air-to-air combat by newer fighters.
So yes, F-4C is a fighter bomber; but it only saw 1-2 years of the Vietnam War before being retired/upgraded.
Thanks I guess ?
And as for the Tornado SLE, I think it’s like the Super Etendard: the missiles (the magic II in that case)
The SLE can carry aim-9L/I-1, which is basically a 9M with smoke, at 12.3. They don’t want an OP missile at lower BR, or like aim-120’s, not under 13.0
slightly is a under statement you are comparing a front aspect only PD radar to a full aspect PD radar that has significantly better tracking
its also lighter and has internal gun meaning its faster and accelrates better allowing it to give its missiles much farther range than the naval F4J
it also has the better countermeasure system of 90 instead of 60 its by far at a advantage
I’m not
Plus
F4Js radar is HDN PD only
Water is wet.
I’m aware of the radar, but do you really want it to stay at 12.3 and continue fighting superior aircraft while the other Phantoms receive their own buffs and remain at 12.0?
and have it face mig 21s with no counter to it yeah sounds great man
or literally any 11.0 will have zero way to beat it think F104G or anything like that
yall only think about the full uptier never the downtier
this is a issue of br compression lowering something just makes the problem worse
The F-5E in the U.S. tree is probably a better example because it has no real way to use its missiles in a head-on engagement. The other option would be to give it AAM-3s, which have already been submitted in bug reports.
Let’s not kid ourselves here, you’d rather face a MiG-21 than an Su-30, and I know I would. Sure, it would be more challenging for the MiG-21 player to fight you, but it’s far more frustrating to face Su-30s in a Phantom, and that’s something I don’t want to experience.
I really hope the Su-30s get moved up in BR. If that happens, there wouldn’t be much of a problem. Unfortunately, it’s been ages since Gaijin has done anything meaningful about them or about decompression, so all we can do is hope.
Would you rather see the Phantom receive AAM-3s and stay where it is as the best Fox-1-capable F-4, or have its BR lowered? To me, giving it AAM-3s is starting to sound like the better option. Of course, some of these suggestions are subject to change, which I’ve done with the F-4Fs. The AAM-3 would come with its own problems and some people would want the aircraft to then move up to 12.7 because it’s a really good missile. That’s why there’s going to be a vote at the end.
its the same fairness essentially as the mig 21 has no way to beat you the R60MK has zero flare resistnace and can be easily one flared its only hope is to point blank launch them and even then you can use gun or just straight radar missile them point blank
it also has zero way to get close to you without dying a even half decent player will win everytime
The MiG-21 2000 in the Israeli tree has better missiles, a HMD, slightly more countermeasures, and a better radar, yet it still has to close the gap against the EJ Kai and many other superior aircraft. It’s not the best example because it has a lot of improvements, but it can still face the F-4EJ Kai.
There are already a few aircraft at 11.3 that would struggle against the F-4EJ because Gaijin hasn’t really paid much attention to them. Yet they can still end up facing the F-4EJ Kai.
It’s not even close, FGR2 is so far ahead of all other Phantoms in flight model it’s not even close.
With weapons attached: 600kph, probably the lowest speed you should be in air RB.
@Stockholm_Blend
Skyflash is the only missile that’s different, and it’s been buffed so many times since AIM-7Fs release that it’s not as major as it once was. And I used it when it wasn’t buffed.
@HazelPam7769
Pushing for BR decompression is not weak.
It makes your post sound like it’s defending BR compression when you call a post actively demanding BR decompression “weak”.
The F-111C at 11.7 has better flight performance & missile count than the Mig-21 2000.
The Mig-21 2000 truly is one of the worst 12.0s
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
@HazelPam7769
The standard is reasonable for 12.0. PDV Phantoms are all better than 11.7 aircraft with one exception due to poor flight performance AND Mig-23ML missile quality: F-4J UK.
For the 12.0s in the game to be “the worst Phantom variants”, there’d need to be more than just arguably Tornado F3 at 12.0. There needs to be better aircraft at the same BR.
I’ve never once in my life thought this was an argument.
I’m here purely to share perspectives & push for BR decompression.
You should put the effort I have put in creating a detailed decompression plan.
All heavy fighters of 13.0 - 14.7 go up by 0.3 BR. Potential to move up by another 0.3 once another cross-analysis is completed.
F-15A moves to 13.3.
F-18C Early moves to 13.0.
F-18A moves to 12.7/13.0.
Etc.
I’ve stated this dozens of times, and multiple times in this topic.
My plan is detailed down to every plane.
