and I assume they are just modeling them to be normal IRIS-T at the moment
they fricked up so many stuff
The range of the new SAMs isn’t actually limited to 10km, they just perform way worse than they should beyond 10km
Depends on the target and which side of it you are facing, I’ve found a few reliable weakspots over time
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also P-16 long ago
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Ahh buns update, Gaijn rushing things and being lazy but want our money.
Still haven’t fixed Belgians sloppy F-16A: Pylon Countermeasure Release and F-16AM: Inaccurate Cockpit as well as not giving the F-16AM sniper ATP this update even though it was accepted in the bug reports like months ago.
Then, these goobers didn’t give the F-16C Block 50 AIM-120C-5. They think it was a better idea to give the new missile to LITERAL MISSILE BUSSES ex. (F-15E, F/A-18C) somehow this is balanced guys.
The devs are either ignoring bug reports or just wanting to drag the game out as much as possible.
I seen plenty of bug reports with valid photo proof/evidence and gaijn doesn’t even do anything with it.
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What people keep forgetting is that these are the optimal ranges against non-maneuvering targets. Neither system will reach anywhere near its max range against an evasive target. Pantsir for example has a 20km range against non-maneuvering targets, but a 15km range tops if they are flying evasive, and even less if they are flying away from you.
Sure SLM can reach 40km on paper, and SLAMRAAM can reach 25km on paper, but as soon as your target starts forcing the missile to turn and bleed energy, or forces the missile to chase it down, that range is gonna get a lot worse very quickly.
Still though. If Pantsir goes from 20km to 15km a reduction of 25% then if we apply the same to the IRIS-T SLM it should reach out to at least 25-30km. The fact its barely hitting 10km, which is about the effective range of the IRIS-T SLS “on-paper” is very wierd.
With CAMMs 25km estimated range (though that is MBDA numbers and they like to understate ranges for some reason and can ballistically at least reach as far out as 60km) we can at least assume effective out to about 15-18km. CAMM-ER what we should get is effective out to 45km, So around 30-35km against a maneuvering target wouldnt be unreasoanble
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I think this is due to differences in motor burn times, induced drag from the missiles trying to turn, and some other factors.
An example of this from air RB is R-77-1 will outrange AIM-120B against a target that is flying straight, but against a maneuvering target AIM-120B has more range due to its fin design giving it superior energy retention.
I would assume IRIS-T just has extremely poor energy retention, or at the very least gaijin believes it does.
According to Wikipedia (not the most reliable source but its the fastest one to check) SLAMRAAM has been shown to be able to engage targets out to at least 15km. Assuming the max range is 25km, that’s a 40% range reduction if the target starts turning.
In my opinion, this is where an “Early” and “Late” Variant would come in handy.
Like an Early F-5E with P-3s and AN/APQ-159 at 11.0 or so, while the Late variant could get the AN/APG-69 and P-5s.
Thats my solution ig idk
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I still do not believe a 75% reduction in range if the target begins to turn is in anyway realistic and the average for most SAMs is more like 25-30% range reduction .And if it is realisitc. Then swap the SLM out with the next IRIS-T SAM up from that which I think is about 75km on paper.
If these new SAMs have less range than the Pantsir. Then there is definetly some bias going on.
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I don’t think its bias at all, pantsir simply has more delta V on its rocket motor. And pantsir is direct fire, whereas SLM has to burn a fair amount of its delta V flying straight up and then orienting itself towards the target.
If anything the huge disparity in range tells me that SLM has far superior straight-line energy retention to pantsir, since it can hold onto that speed for a lot longer if its not forced to turn.
For some numbers: pantsir’s delta V is 1330 m/s, SLM’s delta V is 1225 m/s, and SLS’s delta V is 939 m/s. All of this is of course subject to change, but that’s what the stats are at the time of me posting this.
I am assuming the IRIS-T SLM figures are wrong or it has way too much drag.
But in any case, the fact that after waiting 3 years for Pantsir level SAMs. perticularly ones that on paper should be able to counter KH-38MTs… Are weaker than the Pantsir and cannot counter the KH-38MT… Is deeply disapointing.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see if they add the Skysabre next major update and whether or not that fairs any better. CAMM should easily match Pantsir and CAMM-ER should easily beat it. If nothing else. It should be better than the ADATS
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From everything I’ve seen most of the new systems can counter Kh-38MT consistently. If you watched that one MatAWG video, I would like to point out that he kept accidentally locking onto the Kh-38MTs, and then complaining that his radar was doing that instead of targeting the aircraft. Several times he could have saved himself but just didnt. A few times he mistakenly launched at the Kh-38MTs and destroyed them.
I don’t think that video was made in bad faith or anything, but I do think he doesn’t realize high tier SAM systems need to target the missiles and not the planes primarily, to keep yourself and teammates alive.
I do think its very stupid that pantsir was the only system comparable to these for so long. I wish gaijin had made the decision to bite the bullet and start implementing multi-vehicle SAMs sooner.
I also think its stupid that Italy still has no top tier SAM. At least France’s Crotale isn’t completely helpless at defending itself from missiles, but its still also far from ideal.
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Idk mate. I’m watching Su30’s absolutely clown on SLM’s & Spyder.
These things look hopeless.
In the testing I’ve watched, It’s far easier for a Su30 to intercept a Spyder’s missiles with R77’s, than it is for Spyder to intercept 38MT’s.
We’re also not really making any progress, because at best, all these SAM’s can do is hope to delay the inevitable and buy themselves time by intercepting AGM’s. None of them are actually capable of engaging the plane launching those AGM’s (unless the pilot is bad and gets too close).
The dynamic is still going to be incredibly one sided and unfair. The issue we currently have of Su30’s getting the first strike off with no threat to self will still happen.
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Oh god. I didnt even think about that tactic.
Fire a Kh-38MT at the launcher and then fire R-77-1s at the SAMs sent to intercept it
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Some guy in the Spyder thread was testing this exact scenario. Su30 intercepted every single derby of his lol.
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when we making mig 23 12.0 it should not be fighting 11.0s
yeah the only sam that was able to intercept kh 38 and gbu and jdams was the tan sam on my end
everything else was a complete miss
i saw my python 5 and irist miss an agm 130 that was still burning
here is a test with the tan sam kai against kh38
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is the mg 151s getting changed they underperform damage wise rn
Ohhh the mg151
spark spark spark spark spark spark HIT! +10🦁 +5💡
Gaijin really needs to mess with German guns, they’ve been messed up by Realshatter for so long now that even just touching a Bf-109 feels like cancer
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