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Flak, the tiger 2 P is an amazing tank for 6.7. The tiger 2h is even better. When looking at the M26, it is significantly weaker than a tiger 2P and H. It has significantly less armor, lower pen and shares around the same mobility even though its a medium tank. The tiger 2h has 10.74hp/ton, the tiger 2P has 10.21hp/ton and the M26 has 12.02hp/ton. The M26 will win a drag race but short sprints will not be all that noticeable. Something like a panther A (despite the bad reverse) has 13.27hp/ton. This is because the M26 has a 500hp engine on a 41 ton chasis. What im getting at is the M26 boasts weaker protection than the Panther A at 6.0. Dont believe me? Do an analysis in the hangar. Against a long 88 at 500m (average shooting distance), the M26 has 159mm of frontal protection on the upper plate, around ~143mm-225mm on the gun mantle and 96mm (on the ends) - 200mm(center) on the lower glacis. Against a long 88mm at 500m, the Panther A gets 165mm-195mm of protection on the upper plate. It gets 183mm-201mm of protection on the lower glacsis and 94mm-262mm on the gun mantle. So protection wise the Panther A, a medium tank at 6.0 has better protection against the tiger 2P than a 6.7 US medium tank. Mobility wise the Panther A is also faster with a Horsepower to ton ratio of 13.27 compared to the M26’s 12.02. The Panther A also gets nuetral steering making manueverabilty a bit easier. The M26 only beats the Panther A at reverse speeds 10mph for the M26 vs 2mph for the Panther A. In terms of firepower the Panther A reloads slightly faster at 7.4 seconds compared to the M26 at 7.5 seconds. The Panther A also penetrates more armor at 192mm at 10m at 0º compared to the M26 with 185mm at 10m at 0º. In terms of post pen the M26 does have significantly more HE filler with 137.2 g of TNT equivalent compared to the Panther A with 28.9 g of TNT equivalent. In terms of fire power while an M26 is much more likely to one-shot a penetrated target, the Panther A can more reliably get an initial pentration with better muzzle velocity leading to easier targeting. In all honesty i would say the Panther A has a better gun, but both tanks destroy reasonably well. So, with all of this technical talk, youre probably wondering why i brought up the Panther A when we are talking about whether an M26 should or shouldnt be 6.7. Well the reason is the M26 is pretty even or mildly worse than a similar tank which is at 6.0. The M26 isn’t 6.7 because it has amazing armor, firepower or mobility its 6.7 because of purely player stats. I feel more competent players play US and a lot of people choose germany because of their amazing tanks. The problem is those same players over rely on their armor or guns and play poorly. US teams perform better at 6.7 than german teams, thats just a fact. So, in my opinion the M26 should be lowered to 6.3 and the Panthers A, G and F should be raised to 6.3. That or the M26 should be 6.0. Maybe some suffering will push german teams to start playing better.
M26 is much better than any Panther specially after his movilty nerfs.
Wrong. M26 is 6.7 because Gaijin in his last and failed decompression atempt move up a lot of vehicles just because looks similar. Thars why m26, T26E5 or Tiger 2P and H are 6.7.
Thats wht the move up even vehicles with bad stats.
US players are the same trash as Germany the only diference is the bettet vehicles, lineups and of course the insane op CAS.
Perfrom better due his 6.7 is inane better than Germany and US dont suffer from the brutal hole in the TT like Germany.
Before Gaijin pulverizd Germany in the last BR changes that fact dint exist.
M26 was perfectly fine in 6.3 and maybe could back but move Panther to 6.3 with his movility nerf is stupid.
Germany players are not the problem the problem is Gaijin and his changes.
Before and after stupid BR changes and map sniping nerfs.
I like the idea, it’s a novel concept for a BR change, and class change.
I don’t know that there’s enough performance difference for the BR change but the idea of changing the vehicle class is cool.
I hope you realize that 12.02 is closer to 13.27 than 10.74, both linearly and proportionally.
In terms of armour, the M26 actually has around 176mm frontally, not 159 as you claimed. Additionally, it can be angled much more so than a Panther due to 76mm sides instead of 40mm. Additionally the mantlet and turret provide 150mm to well over a meter of armour depending on angle, realistically 200mm is a rough average. Meanwhile roughly the entire Panther turret is in the 100-130mm range in terms of protection.
Check out the protection analysis below-
For firepower the M26 is overwhelmingly more capable. You bring up 10m penetration- the only range where the Panther has the advantage. At 500m the Panther has 173mm/60mm at 0 and 60 degrees while the M26 has 173mm and 62mm
At 1km this grows to 156/55mm vs 161/58mm
And that’s not to mention APCR- the M304 penetrates 259/58mm at 500m
And the M26 has even more advantages- most notably the much faster reverse speed (5x the Panther) but also more minor advantages such as a lower profile, faster traverse, better elevation, and .50 cal
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The performance difference between the Tiger II H and M26 are also not that huge.
At the moment the M26 has nearly the same amount of armor on the mantlet as the Tiger II H, with some weaker parts here and there.
The main difference is the greater frontal armor and higher penetration with APHE at the cost of some mobility.
But the Tiger II H also costs more SP to spawn.
However, if we compare 3.0-4.0 to 6.7, the Tiger IIs firepower is basically already overkill.
The side armor went from 30-45mm to 75-80mm, while the penetration in general doubled as well.
The M26 can penetrate tanks with side shots just as any other tank but will kill them in one shot even more frequently while the APCR allows it to penetrate quite a few vehicles from the front.
Any tank that the M26 might struggle to penetrate, also has very low mobility in comparison.
And winning a fight against a Tiger II H from range isn’t out of the question.
M26 vs IS4m lol
Just use apcr
I said the M26 had better mobility than the Tiger 2 H and P. What i was getting at was in short movements the differences arent that noticeable. The M26 will beat the Tiger 2s in a longer term race tho, but with both tanks, being underpowered engine wise, dont have hardly any initial bursts of speed. I did indicate the M26’s mobility was closer to the Panther A. Thats why i provided the hp/ton results. Are you insinuating that im trying to say that an M26 has poor mobility? It does especially when you compare it to medium tanks similar to it in its weight class. The panther A is a prime example. Its both heavier and faster. And did you set the same parameters as i did for armor testing? I set the M26 in hangar against the tiger 2’s gun at 500m seeing as thats around an average engagement distance in most matches. Some maps are bigger, but most aren’t. The results were showing 159mm, not 176mm on the M26’s upper plate. It does have that bump which is thicker but the vast majority of the front glacis is nowhere near that thickness. Lets assume i was wrong tho, if the front plate provided 176mm that would still be less than the panther A’s upper plate ranging from around 165mm-195mm against a long 88 at 500m. Its protection amount increases as the shell hits higher on the upper plate. In terms of the gun mantle for both tanks, the Panther’s and M26 are very difficult to quantify and compare exactly. This is because you can have areas sub 100mm to over 400mm against a long 88mm at 500m, ie volumetric. Both gun mantles employ different types of layering and both turrets are known to be quite trolly to pen at times. In terms of M26’s shell performance i forgot they did buff the energy retention of the 90mm shells over range, my mistake. My points still stand though. Both the M26 and Panther are very, very similar in overall levels of capabilities, similar to the f-86 and mig-15. Where one tank lacks, the other is usually a bit better. Yes you can angle an M26 better than a Panther, but there will be and are situations where you have to push enemy vehicles straight on and angling isnt a great option or isnt even an option. The Panther’s, on average, provide better levels of frontal hull armor than an M26 while both vehicles sport similarly armored gun mantles. I guess technically you can say the M26 has marginally better mantlet armor, but then the Panther has Marginally better frontal hull armor considering its RHA, slightly better effective thickness and better angled. The lower glacis also has the transmission which can block shell full damage potential against crew. If I’m in a situation where i can angle myself to fight someone properly, then an M26 is a little better because of the greater side armor. In a hull down situation its honestly a toss up. An M26 may be preferable (not greatly superior to a Panther) because of the slightly better gun depression (-8º on the Panthers vs. -10º on the M26), and reverse speed, allowing you to shoot and quickly reverse into cover. Whereas Panthers would definitely be better suited at pushing flanks and out manuevering enemy positions and generally being able to better sustain incoming fire. Pentrating targets with ease at close to medium ranges and even long range is something both tanks should be able to do. While the M82 shell does get better ballistics after 500m compared to Pzgr. 39/42 the panther does slightly reload faster. So these differences are small and really wont lead to noticeable differences. The deciding factor then comes down to HE filler which the panther significantly lacks. So the argument can go in the M26 having a better gun even if its sub 500m performance is worse than the Panthers gun, its really dependent on the player. Thats what im trying to avoid in this analysis, looking at these tanks side by side the differences besides a few small areas are so similar its difficult to honestly tell which is better. Thats what I am getting at though, why is it i am able to go and play a Panther A at 6.0 and handle every threat without a care, but my teammates can barely seem to get a kill? The last time I played the Panther A i went 15 kills, 0 deaths, 2 caps and an assist and that was a full 7.0 upteir. The amount of complaining i see about the T34 and T29 heavies is crazy to me because they provide plenty of frontal weakspots that can be penetrated at range using the stock Pzgr 39/42 and dont need to rely on APCR. Its the same story with the T26e5, t26e1-1. The Panther can frontally pen them all with APCBC in both the turret and hull fronts. Thats not the case with the M26 against german 6.7’s like the Tiger 2H, jadgtiger, ferdinand. The only tiger 2 you can pen reliably on the turret, assuming you aim with care, is the Tiger 2P. The tiger 2H has a pixel sized weakspot that provides 177mm of protection against M82, and the Ferdinand has hull corner weakspots that provide, at best, inconsistent crew damage if penetrated. The jadgtiger? Good luck. These three tanks require you to use the worst performing shell in game to KO them frontally, the APCR shell. Trying to knock out a 5-6 man tank with whats effectively a supersonic toothpick is beyond frustrating and often leads to downright unfair situations where you can proceed to achieve the first penetrating shot and achieve little to no internal damage. Its essentially the game punishing you for playing correctly. In those situations where you are able to land a first hit, that successfully penetrates enemy armor, often times near vital crew and components, and to not do any damage is infuriating. Notice i talked about a panther A fully uptiered to 7.0. The tank is still capable of frontally engaging enemy targets with its apcbc shell. In a 7.7 upteir in an M26, imagine fighting an IS-6 or IS-4M, Maus, M103, T-54, M48, T32E1. What in the hell can that tank do besides camp spots and go on crazy long flanks to try and get side shots? And some of those tanks even side shots are inconsistent with rounds penetrating less than 200mm. They often require you to aim low on the sides risking hitting dirt especially in a ranged scenario.
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Also scan the entire mantlet. Both tanks have mantlet designs with layered and conjoined pieces underneath. You put your cursor exactly on the MG port of the panther A. Put your cursor over the MG port of the M26. Both tanks have similar spots were a long 88 can either penetrate or bounce on the Mantlet area, my point still stands. You cant just be like “M26 armor better” cause you can find a red spot on one specific location, those spots also come up on the panther A as well lol. You need to look at the totality of the protection provided. On average the Panther’s mantlet has SLIGHTLY less turret armor than an M26, but the M26 also has less hull armor frontally by a considerable degree. As i said in my previous reply where one tank lacks the other is better in those areas.
you are a troll. the king tigers 88mm is AMAZING, easily the best 6.7 gun, i love it. The American M26 however, is a piece of shit. Nobody wants to play it simply because it is just the worst 6.7 medium/heavy in game, easily. Even the T-44 85mm is better, as it has mobility and better armor. Also, that 170mm spot is never a spot you want to go for.
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Thanks for having my back :).
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German stuff only moved up way after every one else had BR nerfs several updates straight prior its not like they where singled out.
Their 6.7 being deep in the red is entirely a skill issue of the average player since it never got nerfed beyond the paper tanks being moved up .3(after getting buffed) and is one of the best lineups for the BR, Even nations like Britain, Italy and Sweden are doing far better despite having worse(and smaller) lineups.
The map changes hurt flankers far more than snipers, German heavies don’t need to check their sides nearly as much as they did before, Which has lead me to get a 6.0 KD from a 2.5 in the Elefant because everyone is now forced to fight it head on, Pretty much the only way i die in the thing now is from planes.
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The holes created after BR changes was specially bad for Germany. Between 7.0 to 7.7 specially.
Before BR changes this “skill issue” never existed.
HAHAHAHHA
Wut??? even gaijin guys pointed the map changes was against sniping spots “cuz boring”.
And here i stop reading.
I will agree that you are the much better player. You’ve played 10 times as much as I do and your experience should make you less ignorant.
Lol, Britain has 3 6.7 Tanks, being the Ratel 20, G6, and Tortoise. Sweden has 2. Italy’s 6.7 is quite fun with the FIAT and AUBL so I think they’re fine. It doesn’t take a genius to realize the USA and Germany have the best 6.7 Lineups.
As for maps, you do realize WT maps are getting smaller and smaller? I would know this, as i’ve been playing the fox. I’ve gotten so many cramped single cap maps its kind of infuriating. Im not saying to add maps like fields of poland, but atleast not COD maps for the love of god.
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Everyone had changes done and nerfs between 7.0 and 7.7, germany was not singled out in particular. Also, the discussion has nothing to do with tanks between 7.0 and 7.7. We are talking about whether or not an M26 should be 6.7. My argument still stands and thats a resounding No.
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After the changes the German TT between 7.0 to 7.7 was formed by only 4 vehicles. Compared with USA with 8 vehicles and Soviets with 9 looks like Germany was the most affected in this zone by far. Even france with 8 is more porpulated than Germany.
Oh yes, but your friends with insults and BS arguments are very welcome for the topic, right??? LOL.
Your own stats said the opposite, so this sound more a cry because you cant club 5.3 tanks anymore and want your low BR comeback.
If worst and less polivalent tanks like Jagdtiger or Ferdinand can saty in 6.7 the much better M26 can too.
Saying the Ferdinand is worse(not even the same vehicle class) or even bad for 6.7 after half the maps had their flank routs cut is wild.
Im just expecting you to unironically say the Tiger 2H needs to be 6.0 at this point.
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Ferdinand is less polyvalent than M26 in practically every map because basically evey map in WT is a urban CQC rats maze.
Keep dreaming.