M15/42 with Pz 38(t) turret (Croatia)

Suggestions Ground
1
[Would you like to see this in-game?]
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
Should I be in Italy?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

General Info:
The Beutepanzer Pz.Kpfw. M15/42 with turret from Pz.Kpfw. 38 (t) has been a unique tank conversion made from the chassis of an Italian medium tank M15/42 on which the turret of a light tank of Czech origin LT vz. 38 (Pz.Kpfw. 38 (t) in its German designation), which served in the Ustasha forces in Croatia and in German detachments in the Balkans. The only information available is three images taken in 1944 and 1945. We do not know their authorship, although it is attributed to the Germans, neither their number nor their use, so that a good part of the statements presented come from the analysis of said documents or from reasoned deductions. Before going on to analyze this conversion, it is necessary to know the situation in which the Balkan scenario was found in which this hybrid arose. After the German conquest of Yugoslavia in April 1941, Germany promoted the creation of an independent Croatian state, ideologically related to the fascist movement. The new Croatian state began to create its own armed forces in a heterogeneous way. These were made up of a core of regular forces, called Hrvatsko Domobranstvo (Croatian National Guard), plus a series of militias from different ideological movements. One of the most prominent movements was the Ustaša organization, a nationalist and fascist party that was characterized by the extreme use of violence, and which had its own body of paramilitary forces, the Ustaška Vojnica (Ustasha soldiers). These have fulfilled a role similar to that of the Waffen SS within the German NAZI party and, like them, have been accused of numerous acts of repression.
It was in this environment that the first reference to a unknown vehicle . An Italian M15/42 medium tank modified to carry the turret of a Pz. 38(t), possibly of the Ausf F model, of Czech origin although in the service of the Wehmacht, thanks to the images published by Dinko Predoevic,The U.O. 139 seems to be the number assigned to this armor within the set of Ustasha armored forces or within those available in the Ustaška Obrana. The aforementioned Dinko Predoevic published, along with this image, some previews of what appears to be a parade in which, from a position almost identical to the one used to photograph the M15/42 with a Pz.38(t) tower, the passage of a CV35 and three L6/40 bearing the signs “U.O. 123”, “U.O. 128”, “U.O. 129” and “U.O. 130” from which it can be deduced that it is a correlative and specific number assigned to each armored vehicle.

image

Armament+Equipment:

  • 3,7cm ÚV vz. 38 Same gun as the Pz 38t capable of firing the same shells
  • 1 Coaxial ZB-53, Vz.37 Machine gun
  • 2 Chasis Machine gun Breda M38

Specifications :

  • 3,7cm ÚV vz. 38 Gun, 1 ZB-53 machine gun, 2 Breda M38 machine gun
  • Front armor 50mm,Turret amor 50mm, 42 mm side armour,
  • Engine FIAT-SPA 15TB M.42 a 8 cilindri a V
  • Maximum speed of 38 Km/h
  • autonomy 220 km
  • weight 15,5 Tons
  • 4 crew members: commander, driver, gunner, loader

Why it should be in game :

  • It is a unique vehicle, since it is not known exactly how many were made, since Croatia did not use the M15/42 or the Pz 38 (t), it would give a new vehicle to Italy and Germany in a tier where Italy needs vehicles,It would be a good premium or squad vehicle that would raise more interest from players in Italy, given a strange mix between an Italian tank and a German one (Czechs).

Source :

Photos
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Thanks for reading, sorry for my bad English.

6 Likes
2

This is an interesting blend. Would be very interesting to play. Would it play like an upgraded 38(t) or a downgraded M15?

1 Like
3

+1 for a Yugoslav tree

9 Likes
4

why not both?¿

1 Like
5

I guess an improved 38(t), with more armor but slower

6

I assume you mean for both Italy and Yugoslavia?

It’d be possible and would make some sense, but I think Italy would have some more fun alternatives of its own anyways.

I like the suggestion by the way.
It’s very comprehensive and well made!

2 Likes
7

I say this because it is an Italian/Czech tank, used by Croatia and Although the Utashe were pro-Germany and the Chetniks were pro-Italian, the Croatian king was Italian, it makes sense, should be in both

8

If I were to choose, I’d rather see this in Italy than Germany. Even still, I don’t think it would be worth it to let such a unique vehicle slip from a potential Yugoslav tree that would require as much help in low tier as it could get.

I would personally much rather that Italy gets expanded more in its domestic vehicles before venturing out into getting sub-trees.
Hungary, however, has made its way into the tree and because of this I don’t think it would be so necessary to take vehicles used by other nations when they allow for more of their own expansions too.

Unfortunately, we do not know who actually made the vehicle.
It is highly unlikely the Croatians did it themselves, as they owned neither of the vehicles the components were taken from. If the vehicle was made by Italian hands, I could see the argument for it going to the Italian tree being stronger, but as of now we don’t know.
I have been thinking to visit a Croatian archive that may shed more light on the situation, but that wouldn’t be in the very near future unfortunately.

4 Likes
9

My problem is that the expansion of Italian national vehicles is no longer possible with the arrival of Hungary, and this is at least half Italian, I am in favor of it being in Italy and the future Yugoslav tree

2 Likes
10

How come you think that the expansion of more Italian vehicles isn’t possible?
I will make an assumption here that you are talking about a potential fifth line of Italian vehicles, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Personally I think this would’ve been hard to achieve in the first place, as Italy is a country that has very unique but not so many vehicles when compared to others. I see little reason why Hungary would take away much from the Italians, especially a fair amount of their unique vehicles have already been added for ground and their air isn’t that much to write home about.

3 Likes
11

+1, but at a br of 2.0 . The gun is more flimzy compared to the italian 47mm, and the turret armour is less trolly.

3 Likes
12

Surely gaijin will saturate Italy with Hungarian things, the vast majority of vehicles in the next 2 years will be mostly Hungarian, planes, tanks, etc., I am afraid of an Austro-Hungarian navy

1 Like
13

Those are some valid concerns.
A similar case is occurring to Sweden, though Sweden has way less growth potential left in it than Italy does.

I guess we’ll have to see what the future holds for Italy. It’s one of my favourite ground trees and I hope that Gaijin will provide quality content for it still.

4 Likes
14

I have 0 hopes, I will probably end up like a generic tree with a thousand German-Russian things,

2 Likes
15

Around same br.

16

In name of God, please Gaijin don’t do it.

1 Like
17

pls

1 Like
18

I wouldn’t be surprised if Yugoslav vehicles take their place in the Italian tree

2 Likes
19

+1 yes to croatian vehicles for italy

2 Likes
21

what do you mean?