There is not enough bullying in the world and it shows
Bring M51 up in BR.
2 Likes
it should stay where it is.
Nah bro, it’s already really good at 6.0, was better-than-mediocre at 6.7, 5.7 or 5.3 would literally put it in the same BR’s as the Jumbo Sherman’s and the 76 Sherman’s, as well as the first few Pershing’s, and it outclasses those too.
And before someone or you pull the ‘you probably have only fought against it, so you have no clue’ I have indeed played it.
Wait till this guy finds out the M-51(W) exists and at the same BR time the a .50 cal and better hull armor scheme
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if its not russian or german at that BR it wont be lowered.
I disagree with OP
M51 should have his pen increased to at least 1400 mm an 0 degrees and BR lowered to 2.7
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Nah, BR of the M-51 is perfect right now.
It has a super strong gun, sure. 400mm pen. That on its own is justifyable of 6.0.
For those of you, however, who want it higher, let me explain. Here are all of the flaws that people fail to mention:
Suspension is crap. Utter garbage. The Gun Stability therefore is… also crap. The thing bounces for at least 5 seconds before you can get a shot off.
Reload is long. Understandably so, but still. Its long regardless. You will never get a second shot off when you don’t one shot someone…
which is the third point. Its not a HEAT-FS round. It isn’t some miracle worker. Its HEAT. Yes it has great pen. Post pen? none. Also, that’s given that it pens. HEAT is wonky, and absolutely has failed to pen the UFP or LFP or Turret rings of vehicles if it hits one thing wrong.
Another point; armor. The M-51 can be front penned by 20mms, or at least back when the HVAP worked. Now, still, it can easily be front penned by 37mm. Its not lightly armored enough to be no armor, however also not heavily armed enough to be well armored. It sits in the perfect medium that screws you over regardless.
All that said, the vehicle sits perfectly well at 6.0. It has a decent gun with a decent round, but still requires some brain to play and isn’t nearly perfect enough to validate its move to a much higher BR.
3 Likes
One shot hit the Tiger turret face. On Maginot, long range shot. Its just not balanced. This 400mm penetration heat shell. For this BR, the pen values as well as the damage cone are too high. This turret face hit even damaged some shells pretty far away fromt he penetration spot, deep inside the hull.
Heat post pen damage is mainly calculated by how much pen power ‘is left’ after pen. 5.7 heavy tank Tiger has 100mm armor. The shell has 4x the penetration, so it does a huge amount of damage.
I’m tired of the M-51 spam and this hyper op shell with far to great trajecory. Its too easy to aim and the heat shell doesn’t lose penetration power, even at 1000m. This tank served during the 1960ties to 1970ties. How can any sane mind put them up vs Tigers and Panthers?
Wiki…
In combat against the Arab armies, the M-51 proved itself capable of fighting newer, heavier tanks like the Soviet-built T-55 to T-62. The M-51’s 105 mm gun could penetrate these adversaries using HEAT Ammunition. The M-51 served well during its time, and is regarded as an excellent example of how an obsolete tank (the Sherman) can be upgraded beyond the limits of its original capabilities.
Gajin…
In combat against the Axis armies, the M-51 proved itself capable of fighting older, heavier tanks like the German-built Panther or Tiger. The M-51’s 105 mm gun could penetrate these adversaries using HEAT ammunition. The M-51 served well during its time, and is regarded as an excellent example of how a modernized tank (the Sherman) can be upgraded even beyond the limits of typcial ww2 warfare to sealclub vehicles from 2 decades ago.
The M-51 is acceptable being at 6.0 and doesn’t need to be any higher or lower. Raising it in BR is for the clinically insane WehraBoos and IvanBoos that hate other nations having tank destroyers that can actually do something against their heavies with more than a modicum of reliability and lowering it in BR is simply unnecessary. Why? Because it will still pen everything while still being penned by everything even at lower BRs, so the change would be essentially a nothingburger and therefore unnecessary.
im a pretty mid ground player, but man the M-51 is super fun at 6.0. i have no issues with its br at 6.0. its gun is great if you learn how to aim it.
as my last message, it should stay at 6.0.
it’s sluggish, no armor, very unstabilized gun, OK muzzle velocity.
the only thing going for it is it’s shell which is decent but don’t expect it one shotting someone, unless it was well aimed or the enemy is an open top or very lightly armored.
Never been an issue for anything else. No one argues or asks why the Base M1A2 (1996 vehicle) is facing Leo 2A7s (2014 vehicle). No one asks why the Wiesel 1A4 (1970s) is facing 1950s vehicles. Etc. etc.
Regardless of date of introduction, the argument is ridiculous. “Oh!!! HIGH PEN!!! HIGH BR!!!”. If we apply that argument to the German tree, the Dicker Max and Sturrer Emil should both be at LEAST 6.7, so as to match other vehicles that have the same type of gun.
5.0 is where the normal m4a1 76 is, wouldnt be fair. M51 is fine where it is, if it is lowered, only the M4A1 hull should be lowered
1 Like
I think 1.0 should be good for it, it cant pen anything rn
That’s how it should be, unfortunately all HEAT weapons are like playing roulette, in your case the roulette came out in favor of the enemy.
The tank isn’t for you and going down lower means you will be very domiant making it even unfair for low tier vehicle if you get downtier.
400mm pen is why it’s 6.0, and that’s probably too low to start with (however, I would say 6.7 is the absolute max it could realistically go but it would be fine at 6.3)
There’s also a 4.0 with 400mm pen HEAT.
lmao no. Saying it’s undertiered is even goofier than calling it overtiered.
No it’s not :
105 mm CN105 F1 cannon AMX-30;
105 mm M-51 cannon M-51;
they fire the same round OCC 105 F1, but the AMX-30 fires it at 1000 m/s instead of 800m/s;
the reason the amx -30 is 8.0, compared to the M-51:
- nearly double the hp/t ratio, 20 > 11.5;
- 65 kph with reverse gearbox, compared to 38 / 5 kph;
- 6.7s reload compared to 7.5s;
- 20mm coax;
- better traverse (hor) 30 > 24, (vert )5.5 > 4 degrees per second;
the JPN STA-1/2/3, type 61 come close, but are more versatile.
STA-1/2:
- better depression -10;
- faster vertical traverse at 6 degrees per second;
- better hp/t 16.5 compared to 11.5;
- worse HEAT round at 305mm, but fster at 853m/s;
- M82 APCBC round for side shots and through obstacles;
- less hull armour, equal turret;
- better mobility 45 /17 compared to 38/5;
- 11 round first stage, also for STA-3
compared to STA-3 / Type 61:
- even better hp/t 19 compared to 11.5;
- slightly better mobility 45 / 8 compared to 38/5;
- -10 depression;
- same reload and traverse stats;
- slightly better then STA-1/2 HEAT with 320mm and 1216 m/s;
- M82 APCBC round;
STA-3 has 6 second auto loader
-worse armor; - Type 61 has 22 round first stage;
compared to them the M-51 could maybe max go 6.3, but then the STA-1/2 are more mobile, faster and have a better variety of shells to choose from. Also they carry a 50 cal, which only the premium M-51 does. I played mine as a TD not a medium, it’s just to slow to react and the gun takes ages to stabilise.
can you frontally pen any heavy you meet, YES. Can the M-51 be penned by anything at it’s Br range YES, it’s the ultimate glass canon, it’s all the gun.
2 Likes
Yes, the gun isn’t exact, but its the same round being fired with the same lethality and effictiveness. We are also talking about a 2.0 br jump, so yes, the amx30 has better mobility stats. Thats near universal across every vehicle.
Across every nation 320 pen heat round show up around 6.7 and 400 pen show up around 7.7. The only tanks with 400 pen at 6.7 have significant drawbacks (ontos, type 60). M51 is better than both, by a lot. HEAT’s postpen is determined by the remaining pen effect after penetration, which is why a 400 pen HEAT round is so much more lethal than a 305 or 320 pen.
The STA are the BEST 6.3 tank. Trying to say ‘oh well the sta is better at that br’ isn’t a justification for sitting at the same br considering you have a large pen advantage. The STA also have a pretty significant neutral steering turning issue that makes them unweildy at low speed. i’m amazed the sta 1/2 haven’t gone to 6.7 but its probably due to just the lack of statistics. Japan has been the lowest played nation for a long, long time. The M51 is easily equivalent to the STA 1/2 considering the poor postpen of the 305mm round.