(Including vehicles of the Kingdom of Belgium)
Foreword:
With the recent April WW1 game mode, I feel it is time to discuss and create an overview of vehicles that could be added if we ever get a dedicated WW1 mode. This post will discuss armored cars and gun cars of France and Belgium.
There’s two main sources I’ve used for this thread that have been invaluable and those people deserve all the real credit. Much of the information here is copied from them and are the default sources for every vehicle unless stated otherwise where applicable. The sources are the following:
- Remont1969’s excellent blog on dzen: https://dzen.ru/id/5d36b0ffd4f07a00af1a9d3d.
- François Vauvillier’s beautiful book “Le grand album des Automitrailleuses de la Victoire”.
If anyone have any more good sources or additions, please post them in the comments or send them directly in a DM.
This list, just like the list I made for the British Empire, will have certain parts divided up in several posts for better comprehension, with ammunition for the guns at the end since many guns use the same ammo and I want to avoid copy+pasting too much. Secondly, for easy reading, vehicles will be posted only with their name+gun and picture in the open, and then with a spoiler below them for the information and data that you will have to click to open if you want to read more about them. I’ve omitted history and descriptions of the vehicles to make it faster and easier to browse through. If this is something you want added, I can try and add something when there’s time. :)
With that out of the way, let’s go!
Quick list of vehicles, armor and AT-capability rating. (work in progress)
Information
Country: Belgium/France
Manufacturer: Minerva/Mors
Year of manufacture: 1915
Number Produced: 13 (6 cannon + 4 machine gun)
Armor: 3-8 mm
Weight: 3500-4000 kg
Engine: Minerva 8L, 4400cc, 40 hp
Armament: Hotchkiss Model 1913 machine gun / 37mm TR L/35 Leger Mle 1885 (Canon Hotchkiss de 37mm TR)
Crew: 3-4
Armament
Gun: TR Hotchkiss 37mm L/35 “Leger Mle 1885” (“Leger Mle 1885” means “Longer model 1885” which was originally an L/20)
Rate of fire: 25 rpm
Muzzle Velocity: 690 - 700 m/s (550m/s for shrapnel)
Weight (gun only): 120 kg
Ammunition Dimensions: 37x201mmR.
Source: Уголок неба ¦ 37mm SA d'aviation 37-мм пушка - Data
Information
Country: Belgium/France
Manufacturer: Peugeot
Year of manufacture: 1915
Number Produced: 1 (+1 MG armed)
Armor: 4 mm
Weight: 3500-4000 kg
Dimensions:
Engine: 3177cc, 18 hp.
Armament: 37mm TR L/35 Leger Mle 1885 (Canon Hotchkiss de 37mm TR), or Hotchkiss Model 1913.
Crew: 3-4
No picture of the mortar mounted on the vehicle seem to exist, but it is confirmed in writing.
Information
Above: The 85mm infantry gun that was mounted on the vehicle.
Country: France
Manufacturer: Francois-Joseph Archer
Number Produced: 1
Armor: 4-6 mm (Resistant to “Balle S” rounds at 25m)
Weapon: Canon d’infanterie de 85 systeme Archer (Archer 85mm Light Infantry Gun). 360° traverse.
Crew: 2-3
Weight: 3 tons
Engine: 4-cyl, 20 hp. Connected to a differential.
Climbing (max slope): 30% incline.
Speed: 25 km/h on road. 20 km/h on bad terrain.
Information
Above: Picture of the real thing.
Country: France
Manufacturer: White Motor Company (chassis), Ségur & Lorfeuvre (armored coachwork)
Year: 1917-1918
Number Produced: 205 (230?)
Chassis: White TBC
Armor: 7 mm
Armament: 37 mm cannon SA18 L/21, mitrailleuse de 8 mm Hotchkiss Mle 1914
Crew: 4
Dimensions: 5600x2100x2750 mm
Combat weight: 6.0 tons
Engine: White 3672cc, 35 hp.
Information
Country: France
Manufacturer: Atelier de Construction de Puteaux
Chassis: De Dion Bouton typ GO
Year of production: 1916
Number Produced: 1
Crew: 4-5
Armament: 37mm SA d’aviation (37mm Hotchkiss SA L/20 gun) & St. Etienne Mle 1907 8mm
Armor: 8 mm
Dry weight: 6.95 tons
Engine: V8, 40 hp.
Information
Country: France
Manufacturer: Atelier de Construction de Puteaux
Chassis: De Dion Bouton typ GO
Year of production: 1916
Number of built: 1 (modernization)
Crew: 4-5
Armament: 47 mm SA d’aviation(?) & 3x 8mm Hotchkiss modèle 1914.
Armor: 8 mm
Dry weight: 7 tons
Engine V8, 40 hp.
Information
Country: France
Year of production: 1914
Manufacturer: Renault
Chassis: Renault Type ED (Renault 35CV Type ED)
Number Produced: 50 (machinegun cars), some converted to gun cars.
Crew: 4
Combat weight: 3 tons
Armament: Canon Hotchkiss de 37 mm TR
Armor: 4-6 mm
Dimensions: 4500x1700x1700 mm
Engine: 35 hp
History:
In order to substitute more gun cars, the idea came about to re-equip some “Renault Automitrailleuse” armored machinegun cars with the same 37mm Hotchkiss guns of the Peugot gun cars in October 9-12, 1914. This would raise complaints from Louis Renault himself who considered this rearmament to be a complete waste of time and work. Nevertheless, a few Renault vehicles would be rearmed with the 37mm guns. The earliest known deployment I’ve found of the Renault with the 37mm gun is December 1st, 1914, less than two months after it was discussed, to replace a Peugeot of the 16th Section (8th group).
Source: “LE GRAND ALBUM DES AUTOMITRAILLEUSES DE LA VICTOIRE”, p.88.
Information
Below: Another picture, showing the half-turret pointed rearwards.
Country: France
Year of production: 1917
Manufacturer: Renault
Chassis: Renault typ ED
Number Produced: 30?
Crew: 4
Combat weight: 3.6 - 4 tons
Armament: Сanon d’infanterie de 37 mm Mle 1916 TRP
Mount: Tiget system (Affût Systéme Tiget? I don’t speak french lol, try to use it to google the mount system).
Armor: 4-6 mm
Size: 4500x1700x1700 mm
Engine: 35 hp
Above: “Type 1” version with less armor. These war machines would progressively evolve and upgrade their armor schemes.
Information
Country: France
Manufacturer: Peugeot
Produced: 2-20?
Vehicle: Peugeot Type 146 chassis (model Type 1525 or earlier version)
Armor: 5.5 mm (2.5-3mm armor sheet steel according to Françoise Vauvillier)
Armament: Canon Hotchkiss de 37 mm TR. Each vehicle carried two boxes of ammunition weighing 200 kg total (400 rds).
Crew: 4-5
Weight: 5 tons
Dimensions: 4800x1800x2800 mm
Engine: 4-cyl, 4536cc (95x160 mm), 18 hp.
Wheelbase: 3.48 m
The first three vehicles (“Type 1”) had a slightly different armor scheme and could only fire their guns rearwards. The armor did not cover the front radiator, and the armored roof and armored “windshield” were two separate pieces with more gap between them. The armor of these vehicles were comprised of normal steel plates 4-7mm thick. There was also a fourth ammo supply truck armored the same way but without armament.
Below: 1st type/pattern.
The “Type 2”: At least three vehicles of the “Type 2” had an armor plate attached to the rear of the cargo bed for extra protection. The gun could now be pointed rearwards. Some guns after this point also have a extra armor plates bolted on to the original gunshield to make an enlarged gunshield with some angles.
Below: “Type 2” pattern. Note the extra plate on the rear and the angled plates on the gun shield. This version now had the ability to rotate and shoot rearwards, which the “Type 1” lacked.
There was also a later “Type 3” with armor on the sides of the driver’s compartment (cabin) seats, which is often combined with the “Second Type” as the main variant with no distinction made between them in many articles and sources. Early version of the “Type 3” could fold down the cabin side armor along the horizontal fold, but this was dropped early in production.
Below: “Type 3” pattern.
A “Type 4”, of at least one example has been photographed, seems to have been developed that added an armor plate to cover the legs of the crew in the driving compartment as well as a triangular rain guard visors above each of the two view ports on the armored “windshield”. It also carried an extra storage box on the left side and a holder for a can of oil is attached on the left wall of the cargo bed. Finally, it used the wider gun shield that some earlier types were equipped with.
Source: Automitrailleuses De La Victoire, by Françoise Vauvillier, p. 72.
Below: “Type 4” pattern, seen from the front.
Below: “Type 4” pattern, seen from the side.
Information
Country: France
Manufacturer: Renault
Chassis: Renault type EP / Armor - FAMH, Saint-Chamond
Years of production: 1914-1915
Number Produced: 4
Crew: 5
Combat weight: 5 tons
Armament: QF 3 pounder Hotchkiss (Hotchkiss 47mm L/50 M1902, Hotchkiss de 47mm TR, Canon de 47 mm mle 1902)
Armor: 4-6 mm
Engine: 18.2 hp
Information
Other Name: Autocanon de 75 mm mle 1913 De Dion Bouton.
Country: France
Manufacturer: System Puteaux / Chassis De Dion Bouton.
Years of production: 1913-1915
Number Produced: 30(?)
Crew: 6
Armament: Canon de 75 mm antiaérien mle 1913 (AA-variant of the famous French 75mm)
Armor: none
Dry weight: 5 tons
Engine: 35 hp.
This model’s main upgrades was a more powerful engine, armored engine compartment, and fire supports.
Information
Country: France
Manufacturer: System Puteaux /Chassis De Dion Bouton.
Years of production: 1913-1915
Number of built: 359 (?)
Crew: 6
Armament: Canon de 75 mm antiaérien mle 1913
Armor: 5 mm
Dry weight: 5.6 tons
Engine: V8, 40 hp.
Information
Country: France
Manufacturer: Berliet (truck), Hotchkiss (cannon)
Number Produced: 1 - 4?
Crew: 4-6 (1-2 in cab, 3-4 manning the gun)
Armament: TR Hotchkiss 47mm L/40 Modèle 1885
Engine: 4-cyl 4,500cc, 22 hp DIN (16,2 kW) @ 1,000 - 1,2500 RPM. 4x2 RWD with chain-drive.
Transmission: 3 forward, 1 reverse. 2-disc dry clutch.
Top Speed: 25 km/h.
It can be distinguished from the Renault cab-overs by a very visible chain-drive.
Secondly is the driver’s cab side profile. The bottom plate of the cab sides “door” openings have a fixed angle that rises upwards as it goes to the front from the middle of the opening, whilst the Renaults have a curved profile as it goes to the front, like a quarter-pipe.
The third and most obvious difference is that the Berliets have a radiator mounted in the front, while the Renaults have it mounted between the cab and flat-bed, having a small intake grille on the side(s).
Above: Extract from a 1910 catalog. Lots of nice info. Note the rear wheels appear identical to the ones in the photos, but front wheels have additional and thicker spokes of a different design. Credit: Berliet Foundation (Foundation de l’Automobile Marius Berliet).
Armament
Gun: TR Hotchkiss 47mm L/40 Mle 1885, QF naval gun.
Elevation:
Traverse: 360 degrees
Rate of fire: 20 rpm
Muzzle Velocity: 433 m/s (High-explosive)
Weight (gun only): 150 kg
Ammunition Dimensions: 47x131mmR.
HE projectile had a weight of 1,130 grams, that can be used for reference when researching more projectiles.
Sources:
Vehicle:
Aux origines du Transport - Part 3 : lorsque la route freine le progrès - - Has a picture from a 1910 catalog of the 3-ton truck with 3+1 gears and 1,000 RPM data on it.
Berliet type M — Wikipédia - Some complementary info. Also states that the truck engine had 1,250 RPM.
https://www.fondationberliet.org/ressources-documentaires/archive-article-dossier-camion-berliet/histoire-transport/camion-berliet-3-tonnes-1908-2/ - Image of a very early 1908 model. The gun trucks are a bit different, such as different tires.
Уголок неба ¦ 37mm SA d'aviation 37-мм пушка - Data on gun.
The tires might be similar or interchangable with the ones from the FWD Model B.
Information
Country: France (French Polynesia)
Manufacturer: Workshops
Quantity: 6 (25?)
Combat weight: 1.4 tons
Crew: 2
Armament: Canon de 37mm TR L/20 Mle 1885/Canon de 37mm, modèle 1885, système Hotchkiss.
Engine: Ford-T, 2896 cm3, 22.5 hp @ 1800 rpm
