Because you guys like to collect these statements:
yeah, sadly we did already
1 Like
Auf
1 Like
In fact, I don’t like having F16s in the German tree. However, “foreign” vehicles in the different trees bother me anyway. It dilutes everything tremendously. Even though I am fully aware that we actually needed them.
However, I don’t understand the resistance to it either.
Either the Eurofighter isn’t that far away in the queue and we are then rightly expected to simply not have any top-tier jets for half a year.
Or, and that would be really bad, they wantonly let us suffer in the top tier.
In fact, in real terms it makes less sense to place South African Gripen in the British tree than to place Dutch F16s in the German tree. Even if so far “only” the entire land forces have been integrated into the Bundeswehr.
Factually wrong, it’s a NATO-cooperation. The Bundeswehr has no say on where the dutch should be deployed. They share logistics, training and in some cases vehicles. Command is still separate per country and officer/administrative system.
Some people have brought the argument forward about the 3 armoured divisions of the NL that merged with their comparable German brigades in order to form 3 force-ready divisions under the NATO readiness pact (Source1, Source2). This made sure that the severely degraded/budget-gutted German(Rapid Forces, 1 Armoured div. and 10 armoured div) and Dutch(11 airmobile, 43 mechanised, 13th light) divisions were able to keep their expertise and readiness (Source3, source4, source5).
This is recent history, as these merges took place on the 1990s under the NATO-umbrella.
The Dutch government still has sovereign power over where to use these Dutch troops/Material.
Edit: But I’ll have to agree that recent dutch equipment would fit well into the German tech tree.
I personally really would despise it however if WW2 dutch stuff (not captured) would find its way into the tech tree, as you might know the Germans and Dutch weren’t the best of friends some time ago.
1 Like
The following is the current reading: "With the most recent integration, every division of the army, even in its basic formation, now has a subordinate Dutch brigade. With the integration of the large Dutch formation, all brigades of the Dutch field army are simultaneously integrated into the divisions of the German army. "
What this actually means is that the Dutch brigades are commanded by Germans in battle.
There is no such cooperation between any two other countries in the world.
It’s astonishing that Gaijin doesn’t take this into account.
Of course, the Netherlands retains sovereignty over its armed forces. Anything else would be absurd.
Just like the idea that Germany would begin a military disengagement outside of a NATO operation.
And historical animosities between states obviously have no meaning here. The tribes of today’s South Africa were subjected to war, oppressed and colonized by the British.
7 Likes
Assuming that the airforces will ever integrate.
Our government actually cares about the airforce and navy so I wouldn’t expect that to happen anytime soon.
1 Like
EJ200’s thrust at M1 on the deck is around 150kN, or maybe even more and it’s by no means a secret.
It’s just that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
1 Like
Eurojet themselves lists it as 90kN, so accountinf for channel loss and any hight issues from 180kN, 150 definitely sounds reasonable
Maybe hes confusing having one engine vs 2?
But I feel like the mafh there is simple, just get the weight of a typhoon plug and play
1 Like
I don’t assume that the Dutch air force will be integrated into the German air force as quickly as has now been done for the land force.
The fact that they relied on the F16 makes joint logistics and training less useful.
However, the F35 are coming soon for the entire BeNeLux.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was an attempt to integrate it into the Bundeswehr’s air force.
However, what I wanted to make clear. What should be clear to everyone is that the military cooperation between the Netherlands and Germany goes far beyond that of NATO.
And it’s not like the Netherlands doesn’t benefit from it or loses its sovereignty.
Again: I myself am not convinced that the F16 belongs in the German tree.
I can wait and look forward to the Eurofighter.
At the end of the year or next year.
But I also think that a Gripen has no place in the English tree. And so I also have no understanding for the resistance to the F16 in the German tree.
At least for the netherlands, I think we already have over half of our order here. From what I can tell it’s all they are flying now from the airforce base I live close to.
As a dutch person myself I very much doubt it, because of some reasons:
-
There is a reason to integrate our land forces, because the only major threat is east of Germany (russia), so if we need to fight at our own borders something has already gone very wrong.
-
Our government doesn’t really seem to care a lot about our army, so integrating them with the German army makes it so they can care even less.
-
We already have a rotating airspace protection agreement with Belgium (and Luxemburg), so integrating our airforce under German command compromise that. Not to mention that part of our drones are stationed overseas.
2 Likes
That makes no sense though, considering that the Dutch are still solely responsible for the acquisition of equipment, maintenace of their army, training of their soldiers, paying of their salaries and have authority over their deployment.
The current shared command structure does nothing ot alleviate this, thus is means that they cannot afford to care less than they already do.
That sounds strange. The Netherlands doesn’t want to care so much about its land forces, so it hands them over to Germany?
You clearly didn’t understand the agreement between the Netherlands and Germany. Neither in execution nor in intention.
The entire process is aimed at forming joint forces in the future. Without exceptions. So also by air and by sea.
At the end of the process, the Dutch armed forces and the Bundeswehr will merge into a joint force.
It doesn’t matter at all whether it will be called the Bundeswehr.
Germany is pursuing the goal of a European army on land, air and sea. The Netherlands is the first country that is ready to take the first steps towards this.
The Franco-German Brigade in Müllheim is another project aimed at this. But a German-French merger will be significantly more difficult to implement.
1 Like
We have had a lot of issues with the defense department the last decade or so which the army usually drew the shortest stick (notable examples were that they always had their budget cut when the other branches went over theirs and soldiers needlessly died due to the government cheaping out).
Which is why I, and a lot of other dutch people, have concluded that the government doesn’t really care about the army.
We’ll see if that ends up happening. Wouldn’t expect it to happen anytime soon at least, not until the next elections at least.
1 Like
I think this will take even longer. Such ideas take time and a lot of groundbreaking needs to be done.
But: I think it is a European flagship project. If the two nations manage to cement the impossibility of conflict between each other while maintaining their respective state sovereignty, Europe can only benefit from this example.
We need a European defense force behind which the entire European economic power stands. The small states would benefit, the larger states would be responsible.
And the USA might no longer be needed as much and would lose some of its influence in Europe.
1 Like
What’s funny is, I fairly remembered since the KF41 was introduced into WT which every german player thought they could get, but snail didn’t do that.
And the snail said it would add into the GER TT in next major update, now serval update patchs had been installed, but where is it??
4 Likes
In my own personal opinin, the new charge manager really dislikes the Germany, once he came into charge, what germany once had became the toy in someone else’s hand such as the Leopard2A6 in Sweden TT, it is fairly a copy-and-paste one, nothing changed but its camo.
What is more the new brench TT in france, the Dutch Army now is a part of Bundswehr and the Holland TT should be one in germany, no matter speaking of present or history.In culture, the Dutch is greatly similar with the Germany and its language is just too much the same as German.
Just take a look suggestions: the Eurofighter passed in Italy, but where is german one?? I can not see it.
Since 2020, there is just too much unfair to Germany, I just cannot take it. What did we get in those years? A leopard2PSO but unrealistic and how about the leopard2A7, WHERE IS MY D-TECH armor?? the new produced ones, THEY EQUIPED the E-TECH armor, but where are they?? The Snail just acts and says: “not a bug”.
Not only the Germany, the 5-lines countries are treated unfairly execpt the Russian, almost every 4-lines countries got their own brench TTs.
4 Likes
they never said that, they said germany will get a KF41 at one point. They never specified when
the charge manager has nothing to do with that. And the passed suggestion realy dont do anything realy. If you think gajin isnt aware of typhoons you are a fool.
Passed suggestion only realy do sth for unknown niche vehicles
1 Like