Let's talk about how War Thunder implements IRST systems

[Armen_Lozone]

There are two types of IRST in War Thunder, which, for simplicity, I will be referring to as generation 1 and generation 2.

Here is the IRST system of the FlaRakPz, as you can see, it does not show distance (0 km reading is a bug, it should say nothing there), nor does it show relative speed to or from you.

Here is the IRST system of the FlaRakRad, as you can see, it does show distance and it shows relative speed to or from you.

Now how do these two systems operate?

Most, if not all Generation 1 IRST systems operate the same. They detect the heat signature of the target and move the turret to keep the heat signature in the center (or in the same place) as it appears on the sensor.

They offer nothing else.
(Currently all IRST for ground vehicles are broken in that they cannot be operated if the search radar is turned off. I am waiting for the bug to be resolved).

When it comes to Generation 2 IRST systems, things get a bit more interesting.
Infrared sensors by themselves cannot detect range to target. And as you need range to calculate speed, they cannot do that either.

Hence, come in electro-optical methods. The IRST performs the function that it always has since generation 1.
But, it is supplemented by a laser beam in the electromagnetic region.
These laser beams operate like laser range finders and give the distance to the target.

To knowledgeable players of Russian and Warsaw pact air forces with IRST systems like on the MiG-23, MiG-29 and Su-27, they would know that the MiG-23 only provides direction of target, while the other two give a lot more information such as speed and distance.

My intention for making this thread is to discuss whether or not, Second generation IRST systems should trigger LWR (laser warning receivers) on vehicles/aircraft that have them such as helicopters.

[Armen_Lozone]

@Gunjob
is this conclusion correct?

@Armen Lozone

Second generation IRST systems should trigger LWR (laser warning receivers) on vehicles/aircraft that have them such as helicopters.

(those that use laser or UV based ranging methods)

[Gunjob]

If it is emitting light to range then yes, but PIRATE on EFT is passive ranging so not worried about that one.

[Armen_Lozone]

Ah i see.
So can we expect any development from gaijin to implement this disadvantage of second generation irst systems?

[Gunjob]

A report can certainly be crafted up if there is the right source materials.

[Rileyy3437]

@Armen Lozone

My intention for making this thread is to discuss whether or not, Second generation IRST systems should trigger LWR (laser warning receivers) on vehicles/aircraft that have them such as helicopters.

From my research into PIRATE this appears to be true and is why PIRATE as @Gunjob mentioned is passive without a laser and instead uses kinematic ranging also paired with a databank (certain engines have certain IR plumes and other characteristics I don’t know enough about to mention and by knowing which engine it is likely to be the system can predict range).

PIRATE avoids LWS detection from using lasers using this method. The ADAD system on the Stormer HVM also uses kinematic ranging IIRC and the laser beam for the beamriding Starstreak is a low intensity laser so it isn’t picked up by most LWS systems.

But its a very real disadvantage of almost every modern IRST barring PIRATE and Legion afaik, particularly on aircraft as most if not all stealth aircraft also have LWS systems.

The ceaveat is that these systems often lack the laser completely rather than just don’t use it for detection and therefore cannot be used to guide Laser Guided Munitions.

[Rileyy3437]

I imagine saying, XYZ has laser warning receiver and XYZ uses a laser ergo should be detected is not enough.

[Armen_Lozone]

@Rileyy3437

The ceaveat is that these systems often lack the laser completely rather than just don’t use it for detection and therefore cannot be used to guide Laser Guided Munitions.

yeah i read the brochure and aside from simple thermals, it cannot provide any weapons solutions for air to ground that depend on lasers, maybe it can be used to lock TV or IR guided ground attack munitions but im not sure.
otherwise it acts as both an IRST and a TGP but with no laser.

@Rileyy3437

But its a very real disadvantage of almost every modern IRST barring PIRATE and Legion afaik, particularly on aircraft as most if not all stealth aircraft also have LWS systems.

ill look into what systems should trigger LWR when using IRST because this seems to be an important aspect of the game

[Rileyy3437]

@Armen Lozone

yeah i read the brochure and aside from simple thermals, it cannot provide any weapons solutions for air to ground that depend on lasers, maybe it can be used to lock TV or IR guided ground attack munitions but im not sure.
otherwise it acts as both an IRST and a TGP but with no laser.

It can identify ground targets, categorise them into threat bands and system types e.g IFV, Tank, SPAA etc.

Also displays a picture with high zoom and high resolution to the pilot that sorta thing so I’d hope ingame it could function similar to the camera on the harrier GR.7 but much more effective.

It can queue things like Brimstone, or anything with a self designating seeker but Brimstone in particular is what will most likely be used so you can take the central fuel tank.

It can also queue things with IOG but obviously cannot provide mid-course guidance unless they have datalink which I somehow doubt many A2G munitions have except Brimstone/SPEAR.

@Armen Lozone

ill look into what systems should trigger LWR when using IRST because this seems to be an important aspect of the game

Yeah it’s PIRATE’s main selling point.

As i said AFAIK Legion is the only other one with passive ranging and I found a report saying it has AOA and G limitations on the F-15.

[Armen_Lozone]

id be interested to nerf the IRST of the Pantsir against helis lmao

[Rileyy3437]

That would be another positive.