I guess the kv-IB or kv-1E are not aided in combat by their armor. Also the maus’s br is not heavly influenced by its armor layout… “yOu sHouLd juSt mG tHem” lol
Taking things out of context are we now? How immature of you.
Here’s the full quote. Stop being dishonest.
Not only is the tank faster in acceleration, power to weight ratio, and top speed for a 35-ton vehicle (same weight as a Sherman btw), but it also has 50 degrees of azimuth traverse rate per second AND a 25 second elevation speed.
It’s well known that light vehicles also take shells much better than other opponents. While true that you can machine gun the vehicle, how does that justify the battle rating? The Lvrvb 701 has no armor for the gunner, so maybe we should put it down to 5.0 with that logic.
But why should I listen to you when you’ve barely even touched Rank 4? You only have maybe 500 games there.
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100% agree it should be at least 6.0 or 6.3
Insane mobility, good turret traverse, good rounds (over 90mm pen).
What’s new! You’ve discovered hot water! Of course players flank you with such a vehicle do, even AMX-13 DCA 40 players do. But the real question is why are you here complaining only about Italian vehicles when there are other vehicles with the same weapon at lower BRs dominating the game?
At the risk of being repetitive but fair enough=> Novice players: “But AMX-13 DCA 40 is OK that it’s OP because it’s in my team, while the leopard isn’t because it’s not in the country I play with, how dare the Italians have a working vehicle?”
Before raising the Leopard’s BR there are several AA vehicles with repeating guns that have been in the game longer and should be raised in BR, so let’s avoid being hypocritical and avoid picking on only Italy.
Ok, so here’s a tip, get to know the game before you complain about a vehicle, so you avoid looking like a hypocrite, and you’ll notice that there are several vehicles with the same cannon as the Leopard, but they’re at a lower BR, and all of them are pretty strong at their current BR.
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I am not dishonest, I just told the truth, this vehicle has no armour to protect the crew, so let’s avoid making excuses.
That it is a fast vehicle I agree, but that it has better armour than most tanks absolutely not since the entire crew is exposed.
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This is the thread discussing the Leopard 40/70 right, or am I mistaken. If you want to rant about any number of other vehicles in war thunder, then make that thread.
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This you?
Apart from a handful of vehicles all you play is Italy. Maybe you have a agenda you want do disclose, when you defend the Leotard 40/70 so much. This is also interesting when you are talking about novice players, you think players who are not only ‘mains’ but almost exculively play only a single nation lag the proper prespective to dicuss actual balancing of the game and its vehicles? lol Dont talk about novice players, you wanna match KD or win rate?
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The Turret crew may be exposed, but it’s a 35 ton vehicle as fast as a Puma capable of fighting a 75mm Sherman. The hull armor is significantly more capable than some medium tanks at 5.0 and not every tank it fights even has a machine gun.
It has penetration equivalent to 75mm Sherman and can fight the 75mm Sherman.
I played a match where I got 16 kills. In that match, there were 3 Italian players who all used backups in the 40/70 to keep using that tank because it’s more effective compared to the damn Firefly.
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No, there’s already ZSU-23-4 there.
It’s fine at 5.0.
It’s a bofors… with the entire crew exposed.
Your friend using a vehicle well that’s trash for the BR they’re playing doesn’t make the vehicle good.
Also you want HSTVL at 12.3 and Strf 9040C at 11.0… [the consequence of putting 2S38 at 11.3].
lol… just lol
The Leopard 40/70 has 8mm of armor. Not 80, 8.
AMX-13 DCA 40 has more survivability while being smaller.
Leopard 40/70 is only 5.0 instead of 4.3 with AMX-13 DCA 40 because of its speed.
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I addressed all the arguments placed.
There is “no crew” in the hull. You just frag all the crew in the turret.
It has the same pen, same gun handling of AMX-13 DCA [which I use as well].
And it’s 0.7BRs higher despite having a non-protected crew because of the speed.
That’s it.
AMX-13 DCA is superior overall cause it’s lower to the ground, more survivable, quieter engine, and a lower BR.
Which explains why I perform better in it than the Leopard 40/70.
Leopard 40/70 is nothing special.
It’s not an M18 which is FAR more deadly in Italy, China, and USA while being at least as fast.
First EBR is more deadly cause it’s as fast while protected.
All of this refutes everything said.
And yes, I’m a 10 tech tree player:
You haven’t played the AMX-13 nor Leopard.
And Just_Baron hasn’t played the Leopard.
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Fair points, I guess you have swayed me a bit. it is still a potent vehicle, which is no crime of its self, but its advantage seems arbitrary because its turret is placed on a leopard hull. Therefor I still stand, regardless of balancing, that the leopard 40/70 should not have been added, and a different SPAA more appropiate to the theme of the 5.0 BR should have been instead.
Honestly like. Give it HE-VT (so it can fight) and then move it up. I don’t wanna see a Leopard while I’m trying to play something from 1942.
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Pvkv m/43 1963… 5.0.
Strv 74, 1958 5.7.
We aren’t escaping years because then things would be unbalanced and unfun.
We ain’t reenacting history, we’re playing war games.
And if we want to reenact history… custom battles.
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No it doesn’t.
Is that justification to lower the Ozelot or Gepard 1A2?
The Swedish have a Bofors AA at 10.0
Speed makes a big difference. The AMX-13 chassis used by the DCA is a 4.0 chassis. The Leopard is an 8.0 chassis.
Yeah, and the WZ305 is a proximity 8.0 not too dissimilar in armor profile.
Don’t put words in my mouth. The Strf 9040C and HSTV-L are fine where they sit. Especially the HSTV-L which isn’t even slightly comparable to the 2S38.
Does having exposed crew justify a low battle rating? I don’t believe it ever has.
It is essentially a ZSU-57-2 put at 5.0. If it isn’t overpowered, why is it spammed at 5.0? Italy isn’t played much compared to other trees, so you shouldn’t see much of them, but that’s not the case.
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APFSDS, search radar, thermals, armor, and IR tracking system.
And no, the Leopard isn’t an 8.0 chassis.
The Leopard 1 is an 8.0 tank because of it crew protection, and anti-tank capabilities.
QZ305 is INFINITELY better than Leopard 40/70 and AMX-13 DCA. Far more anti-tank pen.
HSTVL is far superior to 2S38. HSTVL is faster, smaller, better penning, and more armored.
Exposed crew always justifies lower battle ratings.
Leopard 40/70 is a larger faster AMX-13 DCA with less armor.
“Why is the only SPAA Italy has at 5.0 played at 5.0?”
The same reason AMX-13 is played.
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Yes, in fact we are talking about the Leopard 40/70, which is why comparisons are made with other vehicles that have already been in the game for years, to see if the new vehicle is in the right BR… And look at the case we already have a vehicle with the same cannon, but it is at a lower BR.
So if the AMX-13 DCA 40 can safely stand at 4.3, I don’t think anyone can complain that the Leopard 40/70 was introduced at BR 5.0, it seems pretty obvious to me that if you raise one the other has to rise too.
Wow! I didn’t think your concept of “novice” was calling someone who has done more than 10000 fights in Land Battles a novice. Here to point out your hypocrisy:
This game as far as I know you can play it however you want, you certainly aren’t the one forbidding me to complete one nation’s tech tree first, then move on to another, and knowledge of the game seems to me to be undeniably obtainable even by doing a lot of fighting, so avoid being a know-it-all, you’re just making a fool of yourself.
Othgerius, both Alvis Wisla and I are not disagreeing with you to spite you, but simply your arguments like Just_Baron’s are simply wrong.
Leopard 40/70 is nothing special, and certainly doesn’t deserve to be raised to BR 8.0 just because you want this vehicle to stand together with its contemporaries, if we applied this rule to all vehicles things would be unbalanced and unfun.
We are not reenacting history, we are playing war games.
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You just killed your entire argument and made yourself look like a clown. Well done.
The HSTV-L is known to be in one of the worst states of all vehicles in the game. Not only is it louder than other tanks, but it also has some of the worst if not THE worst spall of all 10.0+ tanks. It is neither smaller nor more armored. Unlike the 2S38, you can kill the HSTV-L with a 30-caliber machine gun.
What’s wild is that you completely ignored that it should receive its proximity round. It’s also a Bofors, which offers a massive selection of shell types.
Looks like an 8.0 to me.
Nice attempt to dodge the full quote again. The proper and full quote is below.
Which AMX-13. The 6.7+ ones are rarely played. If you’re referring to the 4.0 AMX-13, then I haven’t seen it much either. As for the AMX-13 DCA, it’s not racing around like a sports car.
It may be larger, but it certainly doesn’t have less armor. It weighs more than double the AMX 13 DCA.
Here’s a 5.0 Sherman, which has a weaker front plate. Do you want to know what the Leopard’s front plate compares to?
A Panther.
You have an armor profile nearly as good as a Panther tank with significantly better mobility. The Middle of your tank is a vacuum for shells.
The only way to kill this thing reliably while it’s moving on your flank with its superior power to weight ratio is with high explosive, but not even that consistently kills the damn thing.
All the crew of the Leopard 40/70 is in the turret.
Thanks for proving yourself wrong on every account.
I especially thank you for proving that Sherman has more armor than Leopard 40/70.
Leopard 40/70 doesn’t need proximity rounds BTW. It’s fine at 5.0.
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So does the WZ305.
Explain.
That shows the exact opposite. No armor does not mean weak. You should know this. You have over 30,000 battles. I’m disappointed in you.
If that’s the truth, then try to prove it. It’s spammed like hot cakes and has equivalent penetration to the Sherman 75 while seeing it every game.
You showed that Leopard 40/70 only has 8mm of armor, and all the crew is exposed to the elements [tanks can’t operate on one crew member].
8mm is less than Sherman’s over 50mm [didn’t read the specific number].
You have no experience playing the Leopard 40/70.
If you think it’s so OP go play it.
Also I already proved that Leopard 40/70 and AMX-13 are similar.
Identical pen, one is smaller [harder to see easier to shoot enemy tanks with], and the other is faster.
I also have similar performance in both of eh, with 40/70 being worse experience due to facing smart people that just fire their machine guns at me after hearing the loudest engine at that BR.
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