So the same thing happening to the KF51 lol, they all have major differences.
Its more likely you arent keeping up to speed about the KF51 project both italy and hungary have independently with major differences in development
No. Neither Italy nor Hungary seem to be involved in the 2A8 project. At least thats the current status. Hungary has not ordered anything above 2A7 and Italy bailed the 2A8 project cause it was refused to establish a domestic italian production line.
So far the only ingame operator is the Bundeswehr. Like Two years ago, 18 2A8 were ordered as test batch. During summer last year, after evaluation, 105 more Leopard 2A8 were ordered. Germany will be the only ingame nation who operates the 2A8. Sweden/Finland, France/Netherlands, Italy/Hungary might eat dirt this time :)
Beschaffung: LEOPARD 2 A8 für die NATO-Ostflanke
As far as I understand, the 2A8 is just a temporary solution to have a new standard to address issues western armor faced in Gaza and in UKR. Around 120 2A8 will be ordered and the existing fleet will be upgraded to this standard. Bundeswehr states the standard is so far not fixed and might get more things added (UAV defense).
While this happens, the true new Leopard is under development. It will be likely referred to as Leopard 2A9 or Leopard 3. The 2A9 / 3.0 might be the last Leopard model. After this, Franco/German MGCS will take over.
The Rheinmetall KF line is an independant thing. So far no ingame nation seems to have ordered one of those. Means just Ger will likely get the existing test beds. If Gajin feels like it. But other nations also gets test beds added left and right. So why not?
Before all this happens, Gajin should consider that Germany upgraded several base Leopard 2A7 to 2 A7A1 standard. This one should be introduced, it were 10+ Leopards refitted to evaluate Rafael’s Trophy and some other things. These should find their way into WT very soon, imho.
Whats also missing is the high pressure ammunition for the L55/A1 gun. DM73 is the current standard APFSDS since 2021. DM63 (since 2005) for the older L55 guns, which also holds some benefits over DM53. Soon DM83 will be introduced (also just for L55/A1 high pressure gun)… But ingame we’re still stuck at DM53 from 1998? Why? That was almost 30 yeara ago and isn’t even used anymore. It doesn’t make sense to add new tanks, but refuse to give them their ammo. So please DM63 for every existing Leopard 2 L55 gunned tank and DM73 for the L55/A1 ones.
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By the time we finally see the 2A8 (given that they only seem to add like 1 new somewhat unique rank VIII MBT per year now), the first 2A8 might have entered service with the dutch army already.
Which would make it a fair addition :)
So far just Ger and Norway (not ingame) ordered A8 tanks. You know how it works. Its a year–long process. Even if the Netherlands order it right NOW, it takes like 3+ years to finally get them. Right now I’m not aware that Netherlands even operate MBTs. During cold war they operated almost 1000 (wow), but right now it should be still 0. Even if NL wants to re-build at least one tank brigade, it might take many, many years.
you said “Two of any of the ‘best’ vehicles in a single tech tree is unlikely to happen” and i gave you an example
That’s not quite true. Sweden has ordered an upgrade of its Leo 2S to the 2A8 standard, without any Swedish elements added. Denmark has ordered a similar upgrade. The Netherlands will buy 2A8, although they will be included in the Bundeswehr and located in Germany (Gaijin won’t care about that, tbh). Austria and Spain are buying modernization. Switzerland is thinking about upgrading its Leo 2. So there are many.
No. The next upgrade of Leo 2 is planned to be AX. Which was already partially shown in Greece
God, no! Why drag lame/cheap options from irl into the game?
Gaijin is very biased towards other countries that are not the USSR, USA or Sweden. So…
Is it possible for me to ask a question that I have been looking for an answer to for a while and have not found the answer?
why challenges tank have a big lower plate
Yeah mb I meant “Two of any of the ‘best’ VEHICLE in a single tech tree is unlikely to happen”
Are you talking about the KF51-U? Can you show me the major differences in the development of the two variants?
It wasn’t? The BAAINBw has only contracted its official development ~6 months ago.
I’d like to see this “AX from Greece”.
DM73 is the current standard APFSDS since 2021. DM63 (since 2005) for the older L55 guns, which also holds some benefits over DM53. But ingame we’re still stuck at DM53 from 1998? Why?
Balancing reasons I’d say. Wouldn’t be much fun in top tier if you could rip through the armour of any other tank with terrible shots. As it stands we have to identify which tank we’re shooting at and aim for specific learnt weakpoints on that particular tank.
Adding the latest ammunition would strip all of this away and further degrade top tier to point and click combat.
At this point, no country will produce the 130mm gun, as it is not certified with other countries. In my opinion, a prototype will be made and that will be it (at least for this decade). As I said, the next modification will be the AX, if nothing changes in the original plans.
Doesn’t matter. BAAINBw has already made it a goal for Germany’s Leopard 2s to eventually switch to the 130mm.
As I said, the next modification will be the AX, if nothing changes in the original plans.
Okay? You’re barking up the wrong tree buddy.
Also as I expected, it’s the ASPIS (which is an alternative armor upgrade for Leopard 2A4s…), it’s not the “Leopard 2AX”, as Greece isn’t involved in the development.
What?
Yeah, that’s why it produces and integrates armor protection and other elements that belong to KMW/KNDS in Leo 2. If it were an independent company, it would sell these packages to other countries, which it does not do, since all rights belong to KMW/KNDS xD
ASPIS is a development by an independent company tho? EODH isn’t KMW’s subsidiary or anything.
rights belong to KMW/KNDS xD
KMW doesn’t have any rights to things produced by EODH…
While this is for the time being including an already adopted solution, an option remains open to integrate the new EODH armour kit, should this provide the expected results, the ASPIS being currently under testing by independent entities, one of them being the Dutch TNO EDR On-Line understood, following successful industrial trials at the company. Final results are expected before year end.
But KMW and EODH are indeed partners, as the latter is responsible for production of Leopard 2A7s hull add-on kits, as they inherited production and intellectual rights to these from the now defunct IBD…
Then why doesn’t it sell its goods to other countries? Doesn’t ASPIS offer, say, Chile, which was looking for modernization on the side, not from Ger?
It’s more like everything’s going the other way around…
Yea, that’s true, but it also applies to other Ger projects. And by the way, IBD is still quite alive, but under a different name)
https://www.defenceiq.com/events-internationalarmouredvehicles/sponsors/ibd-deisenroth-engineering
Clearly the armor kit not selling like freshy baked buns not even two years after It’s been unveiled must means it can’t be sold due to X, Y, or Z, right?
How did you even make that leap in logic.
Wait, wait. You say that it is independent. It produces its own goods and offers its own services. So, as a company, it can freely participate in tenders and sell goods to other countries, right?
So I ask, why doesn’t it do this, if similar companies do it? It could participate in the same tender in Chile, and no one would say anything to it, unlike in Turkey
There is 3 KF 51 variants right now in existence / in development
- KF51 130mm version tech demonstrator, this one was built on a leopard 2a4 chassis. Rheinmetall is not allowed to export a 2a4 chassis for their standalone mbts
2.KF51 EVO (Hungary )120mm cannon on a büffel chassis a modified leo 2a4 chassis for a armored recovery vehicle and seems like strikeshield capability, importantly ammunition is man handled
- IMBT (Italy) Italian version of the KF51, completly newly developed chassis between rheinmetall and Leonardo. Comes with 120mm and autoloader. Italian developed engine and transmission
Furthermore Italian passive armor from Leornado, Rheinmetall being in charge of the active protection system. Italian FCS with ability to shoot 120mm Vulcano ammunition. A guided ammunition shot from tanks
La joint venture Leonardo Rheinmetall Military Vehicles per i nuovi corazzati dell’Esercito – Analisi Difesa
There are several differences between the 2 versions.
Generaly thats why i recommend to just stay quiet if you only have half knowledge and dont inform yourself about those matters
The KF51 variants aren’t different enough to warrant two being implemented
Yeah I stand by this claim.
I’ve checked through your sources (thanks for educating me) and I can certainly say that at least as of now, and more than likely anytime in the future, these variants aren’t anywhere near different enough. I would even say the Hungarian variant as described in your source isn’t different enough from the demonstrator KF51 to warrant possible implementation if the demonstator were implemented instead of the Italian variant. All we know is its a KF51 with an L/55A1 and slightly different chassis. Big woop.
This is a hopeless endeavour. We don’t have any examples of the ‘best’ vehicle in a tech tree being added twice, variant or not, and I don’t know why you’re so adamant on this because we’ve got a pretty good reason why… It would undeniably be completely unbalanced.
Bit of half knowledge on your end… the Hungarian KF51 does include an autoloader