The Abrams wins in the areas where it does not, by a large margin, while the armor and penetration of the T-90A are far superior to the M1.
Yes, it’s very important, especially if your tank is going 35km/h and the enemy is going 60km/h. With a difference of 12km/h, it’s clear that the Abrams will reach points on the map sooner, but the T-90 would still have time to reach the closest points.
12.7 no, but upgrading some of the highest and best armed IFVs to Br 11.0 might be possible, especially if they correct the damage models.
In what universe is a difference between a 7.0 reload and a 5.3 reload not a ‘‘large margin’’?
3.5°/sec vertical traverse against 24°/sec vertical traverse?
-4 km/h reverse against a -38 km/h reverse?
-4° of depression against -10°?
24°/sec traverse against 40°/sec traverse for the turret?
16 seconds to reach 55 km/h vs 10 seconds to reach 55 km/h?
I’m sorry, but you give me the awfully strong impression you’ve never played these tanks and you have no idea what their performance is like.
Plenty of vehicles (including MBT’s) are not performing correctly based on available source material.
A corrected Leopard 2A7V/HU would utterly dominate everything and I can’t think of a single light tank that would come remotely close to it’s level of performance.
No, I haven’t actually played with those two tanks, but from what you’ve said, it’s a situation similar to using a Panther D against an M18 Hellcat, an M4A3E8 or a T-34 85.
I’m referring specifically to when you penetrate and your bullet does very little or no damage, or ricochets meaninglessly. That’s what needs to be corrected.
Panther D and hellcat actually are quite a good comparison. T90 behaves like a heavy tank frontally, though its turret traverse is not as abysmal as the panther D but as a comparison it works. While the abrams/hellcat is constantly moving, trying to find an angle to its sides or flanks, the t90a will have a lot of trouble as soon as hes got to cover multiple angles and cant show his front anymore (though you can still easily onetap it from the front, those shots just take way more precise aim than vice versa) due to long reload and quite bad turret traverse/gun elevation speed
It is a good comparison and highly map and game mode dependent.
The agility of the abrams family requires broken sightlines and map design that allows for flanking. Put it on a map that is close quarters and it suddenly those advantages of being slightly faster and able to swing the turret disappear.
Need to contest a point in on a knifefight in a phonebooth map? Well that’s not for you buddy, enjoy that repair time to think about your mistake.
they also have 105mm guns with a lower velocity and lighter round (105mm DM33 is 0.5 kg lighter and 185m/s slower than 120mm DM33, which doesn’t sound like much, but that’s 44% difference in K/E if my math is right).
It’s nice not to die to APDS from auto cannons but the ones at the 2A4s BR usually have enough pen and dmg they can knock out the gun or other key systems.
5 second reload time aced and quick turret traverse and mobility make it much easier to deal with sticky situations like multiple enemies pushing you from different angles while in the t90 youre just boned once you shot because everyone knows your reload is very long. Reference to Type10/TKX. Nothing beats those things at top tier in getting out of such a mess like being absolutely pincered. And then you can witness enemy tanks pushing into you one after the other thinking you cant shoot again.
Both extremes have up- and downsides in cqc. With the t90 youre more relying on your enemies wiffing shots than anything. Problems arise if they dont. because they have a 2 second faster reload and way snappier guns+ more positions they can utilize, even on some city maps.
While you claim that subpar armor makes tanks unusable in cqc those things (Type 10 and TKX) have among the best stats in top tier, tied with t80BVM and uparmored Leos like 2a7v and 122B+ while having 0 armor compared to those. and you might say well yeah thats more due to open maps where they can use hydropneumatic suspension to work ridgelines, i can assure you it is not. On open maps having as little armor as they do compared to the competition is a much bigger problem then at cqc
I typically autocannon Leopard 2A4s and such from the side because the drivers get a bit overconfident by the fact they’re driving the famous Leopard 2. Such as this game I got a nuke in last night:
Unlisted - Up resolution if YT tries playing in 480p
But smart players who keep their distance can be a annoyance to take out, especially with that fast reverse speed. They can pop up, take a shot, and reverse back down before you can even reply.
Before they added the BMPT, I would agree with you.
But if we come back to it. I guess it’s about the whole package? People always go on about gun handling, gun depression, mobility, all these other factors besides armour protection. Which I guess explains why the Leopard 2A4 is where it is, and what round it has. I’d personally rather go all in with something like the Object292 at 10.7, but that’s just me.
@MotorolaCRO Where you at? Didn’t you say Leopard 2A4 is best 10.7?
But I’m a big fan of dakkadakka to begin with and am biased against MBTs a lot of the time.
Oh, for sure. I never said it was the best 10.7. It goes all in on one aspect and I’m all here for it. I enjoy it. Even for USSR, the T-80B with its new 6.0 reload is probably the smarter option.
The Leopard 2A4 is a 10.7. It’s higher than the T80UD which is better in most metrics except “Muh reversal gear”. It’s an overtiered and underwhelming tank that has no real armor especially in the constant uptiers and low damage itself.
That’s a cherry picked example. T-80UD will be moving up, surely. Compare your Leopard 2A4 to something like the T-72B and other USSR 10.3 MBTs, instead.
T-72AV for example? Which gets the 3BM42, with 452mm of pen? Which can lolpen the 2A4 basically everywhere? Or the T72B? Same thing?
Meanwhile DM23 can’t do that. At all. In a frontal engagement the T72B can vaporize the 2A4 with a hit basically anywhere. The 2A4 needs to aim for the drivers hatch, lower front plate, or turret ring. And then hope for the best. Funnily enough, a T72B can lolpen a T72B’s upper front plate in most areas.
And claiming “The T80UD will totally go up, any day now!” is ridiculous. Because it hasn’t gone up in ages. And even your fellow RUssian main disagrees and tries to downplay the tank. Russian stuff at 10x+ is consistently undertiered and facing enemies who are overtiered, artificially harmstrung, or both.
