Somewhat. Nothing other tanks don’t struggle with as well.
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True, as i said i am aware it can happen to any dart, and even on tanks without era on the sides darts do completely vanish from time to time. The amount of times this happens to the leclercs dart compared to the ones of any of my other top tier mbts in Germany, Sweden, US or Japan is what makes me think it might still have something to do with the lower pen on the leclercs round that maybe leads to it happening more often.
And similar things happen to shots to the other weakspots from time to time. Like, have you ever shot a t90m straight from the front into the drivers port, the dart passes through the whole tank (at least in killcam no spall visible damaging anything) through the whole fighting compartment, through and taking out the engine and thats all? Yes, OFL Power. Maybe that would have happened with a better round, maybe not, youre not getting the exact same shot replicated with another round to confirm anyways so maybe all of this is moot…all i can say is that with shots you have to take at oblique angles even when hitting the weakspot, all other rounds at top tier seem way more reliable (maybe by creating more spall so at least damaging something important) and that shouldnt be the case. At no tank in top tier where you have to react quickly should a clear shot to a weakspot that should at least be disabling be a gamble. And imo with no tank at top tier thats the case as often as with the leclerc.
Yeah it shouldnt and cant go that far down, also because gaijins statistics apparently tell them its fine where it is (france players too good, whatever). It should get fixes and then stuff that is just plain better than it should go up. It is frances top tier tank after all and shouldnt sit at a br where a lineup of 4 of them can just bully 11.0 tanks.
If you stop perpetuate the myth that the leclerc is somehow this difficult tank to play.
let’s be honest that myth is only there to make yourself feel better.
Any tank can be used well. However Leclerc is in the bottom 30% or worse of top tier tanks performance, despite its BR being the maximum. Topic of this thread is the BR placement of Leclercs. Purposefully or not, you are redirecting the conversation towards player skill and insignificant arguments rather than balance.
Leclerc SXXI is significantly better due to the CITV with thermals, and other improvements. In the current landscape it could go a BR step above the others.
I disagree, it’s only slightly worse than the M1A2s while it’s easily better than the Leopard 2PL, T-90M, T-72B3A, Challengers, Ariete AMV, VT-4A1, WZ1001 and ZTZ99A. Most of these are placed at 12.3-12.7.
And when you compare the Leclerc to the Leopard 2A5-2A6, Merkava Mk.4s and Type 10s it’s debatable, but you can succesfully argue that the Leclercs are better than most or all of these as well.
So yeah calling it a bottom 30% MBT is something I disagree with.
EDIT: I didn’t mention the Leo 2A7s and Strv 122s since they are easily the best MBTs in game, so no reason to compare the Leclerc to these as the outcome is just too obvious.
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leclercs are basically a better abrams they have mid turret armor and a strong front plate
also since they have a autoloader you get the 5 second reload stock rather than having to pay for it like the abrams
they have on par gun handling and dont have a turret basket that locks the turret up
basically on par and or better than abrams definetly a top 5 tank above the abrams spec wise only flaw is the round is mediorce which definetly should recieve a buff
France also has good cas to complement it and now a guardian with there domestic heli
france is best tree for GRB right now considering the tree as a whole
also france has a lot of leo 2s to reinforce there line up
definetly deserves 12.7
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Out of curiosity, did you ever play any of the Leclercs?
How does having multiple of the mediocre tanks make the tanks which is basically always the same any better?
And how is it spec wise above the abrams? what does it do better?` compared to the numerous things its worse at?
well the germanys only get a max of 1 12.7 LEO-2a7 while the rest of the leo2s are far worse you get Crtl C+V of best tank its why russia was so strong for a while as they had hundreds of copys of there best vehicle
if you looked at the post before commenting your basically a abrams with on par or better armor and better gun handling due to not having to ace your loader and your mobility is basically the same
The best tank that is on par with the m1a1 aim at 12.0? or the m1a1 at 11.7? which has better armor frontally, a better round, same reload aced, better gun depression, 50 cals, and proxy fuze heat?
If you really believe the leclerc has better armor go into the armor viewer and compare the leclercs frontal armor vs the m1a1s top round from 11.7 with the m1a1s armor vs the leclercs top round…if thats better then idk (and consider, shooting the ufp of any abrams which somehow shows pen likely wont pen because it auto ricochets due to high angle, the leclercs ufp…ud be lucky not to get penned there)
m1a1 has worse armor frontally its same problem as 2a5 no hull armor and a unarmored breech
leclerc has some hull armor and turret armor except for one side of it which is pennable
check it in game. the leclers lower front plate has 70 mm compared to the same dart that the m1a1 has 400 mm all over the lower front plate. and the leclerc doesnt even have armor at around 50% of its turret front profile at 100 m vs the m1a1s top round, which again, sits at 11.7???
yeah but its only 400MM meaning it wont stop anything so might aswell be paper same armor scheme as the 12.7 SEPV2 btw so why should this go lower while having similiar if not better performance at same br maybe the early leclercs should be 12.3 but thats it at max basically identical armor
same mobility better on some certain models than others due to add on era
faster reload
similar armor maybe a lil worse
and some of the best cas to back it up the RAFALE
which, again, is still worse than the m1a1s armor at 11.7??? while having a way worse dart?
Once again, did you ever play the Leclercs?
its not that much worse or should the last Srtrv 122B+ be 12.3 cause its dart is worse than 2A7 or what about top tier japanese tanks there in same boat and have it worse in some cases japan doesnt even get a good cas plane for the BR just copys of american stuff with agm 65s
and again i did say it should be buffed
TKX is 12.7 btw with 481MM of pen and zero armor with its decent mobility being its only protection
strv122b+ trades better armor with worse firepower and worse gunner thermals and maybe a bit worse mobility.
the leclerc has a way worse dart, much worse armor, no hevt shell, no commander controlled 50 cal, 2° less gun depression (for comparison t90m also has only 2° less than Leclerc) and sits 1.0 br higher than the basic m1a1 and 0.7 higher than the m1a1aim and m1a1 HC which are quite comparable.
Japanese tanks simply outreload everything and have an awesome dart with bit worse armor than the leclercs.
And how does a good cas lineup justify tanks being overtiered? Now a lot of nations have good cas lineups, and most of them have the means to deal with cas.
TKX dart has 619 mm pen flat at point blank.
really though the dart is worse then the french one by 50MM less pen and only getting 1 second faster reload sounds like cope mind you its armor is way worse than leclerc azures
you should really check the actual top dart the japanese tanks get. idk what you are trying to do here. Have you played the japanese top tier tanks?
yey just noticed the Type 10 didnt see it dont know why same name as the tank its on but
still even with the 615 pen its still poorly armored so if you dont get first shot first kill it kills you guarnteed and japan only gets 2 of these while france has 5 lecelercs with better armor for a slightly slower reload the line up of leclercs is just better than type 10s and type 90s mind you the japanese tree suffers infinetely more at lower tiers than france too
why should a leclerc azure be 12.3 same br as ARIETE AMV with paper armor too mind you only having a slightly better round and you have to have a ace crew to get 5 second reload unlike france you get it stock
heres there spec comparison