Leclerc's problems

[oeufdepoule]

There are many problems of the leclerc, supposed to be one of the best tank in the world.
First i’d like to talk about the differences betwen shot simulations, and in game experience. Then, I’ll talk about the things inacurates.

AMMUNITIONS :

The OFL 120 F1, has the worst penetration rate of 11.7MBTs, i don’t know where they took this information knowing that, by wikipedia, it has around 600mms of penetration at around 2000meters(knowing that the penetration rate of the OCC 120 G1 in WT has the same pen/rate than the OECC 120 F1 in wikipedia).
OFL 120 G1,OFL 120 F1,120 OFLE F1B,OFL 120 F2,120 OFLE F2 are all lerclerc’s apfsds chronogically, and only the 2 first are ingame.
Same for OCC 120 G1,OECC 120 F1. There is only the G1 (at least that is comprehensible).
The leclerc in WT only carry these types of rounds while irl it can take OE 120 F1,120 EXPL F1,120 mm HE M3M, explosives rounds.
another thing that i put here is the machinegun, leclerc can carry a 7.62mm on the top, gunner side. Not even one leclerc have it.
For my ingame exp, with the OFL120F1, i don’t remember even one time i could pennetrate the side of a leopard turret, but on the oposite for the leo, a side shot on the leclerc is an easy oneshot.

MOBILITY :

As you can see on this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnIZOKeWksA at 24minutes, the turret easily turn faster than the chassis, ingame, if you turn turret in the opposite way than the chassis, it doesn’t move.
You also cannot turn fast, the response of turning without moving is way too slow for a tank supposed to have an hyperbar engine of 1500 horsepower.

ARMOR :

The armor is the most funny point, Italy and Japan know it too.
In the informations about the leclerc on WTwiki, you can see there is ERA armor. I would love to know where it is because I never didn’t took dammages of HEAT-FS rounds, while in china and russia, the ERA stops OFL120F1 (not very suprising knowing the points up) even on the side, yes i experienced it (mostly with OFL G1).
The inside of the tank has nothing to separate the driver from the turret crew. There is only a rolled homogenous armor that protect nothing from everything.
A DM 53 can penetrate the front right turret armor (composite) only because there isn’t the 4mm of steel before it. I don’t think 4mm can change a lot of things on a DM53 shot but anyway.
The most annoying part is the front. Honestly i don’t know why gaijin didn’t place armor here, in front of the pilot. A tank that weight more than 57 tons does not have armor here? A tank that is sell at the highest price can be oneshot so easily ? A tank that was at is service start the best in the world, and is still? I would really like to have an explanation, because 57mm of front protection for a tank isn’t imaginable.
The AZUR kit is a joke, one time I’ve been penetrate on the NERA (not ERA) by a VT1. While the kit of russians stops APFSDS.

TECH :

I’ll probably forget things but is is the most important;
Why is there only one leclerc with a thermal commander sight? As I already said, this tank is supposed to be the/one of the best, with the most advanced electronics, words of the DGA btw.
That doesn’t exist in the game for now but the leclerc have an auto fire extinguishing system, so having to extinguish without being able to fire isn’t accurate.
The cammos are disgusting btw, I never saw a french tank with dark vomit green and light frog green.
The AZUR kit, by wikipedia should be equipped with 2x9 smoke tubes.
Only 2 tanks have thermal commander sights, and 1 is premium…

If you have explenations to all the points I listed, I’ll be listening !
Sorry if i did some english mistakes, and hope you’ll readd, agree, sign, explain or just care about it, france is a nation that needs player an pleasure to play, it isn’t the case rn.
Have a good day !

[MuricaxSuffers]

Wikipedia IS NOT a reliable source

[oeufdepoule]

so WT is more?

[FurinaBestArchon]

@oeufdepoule

A tank that is sell at the highest price can be oneshot so easily ? A tank that was at is service start the best in the world

Price =/= effectiveness.

Low Rate of production = high price

[oeufdepoule]

Not forced to read, if you are sour, you can keep it for you

[oeufdepoule]

and why is it low to produce? quality, quantity, electronics, uranium.

[FurinaBestArchon]

Okay. Leopard 2A8 costs ~30 million, 2A7V costs ~7 million & SEPv3 costs ~15 million.

Only one of them has DU (which is DIRT CHEAP, it costs less than Tungsten that’s used in the armour of Leopard 2s), but it doesn’t cost the most. You are aware the meaning of quantity is literally “having a lot of something”; so is Leclerc an example of quantity, or not?

You’re contradicting yourself.

The reason why 2A8 costs the most is because there’s the fewest of them in comparison to the other two, same happened to the Leclerc, much fewer of them were made in comparison to their peers… if Germany had used up the option for 123 of them (2A8s) instead of just 18, cost per vehicle would’ve dropped to just about ~11 million, less than the SEPv3. That is called economy of scale.

[WaretaGarasu]

Hey,

@oeufdepoule

The OFL 120 F1, has the worst penetration rate of 11.7MBTs, i don’t know where they took this information knowing that, by wikipedia, it has around 600mms of penetration at around 2000meters(knowing that the penetration rate of the OCC 120 G1 in WT has the same pen/rate than the OECC 120 F1 in wikipedia).

OFL 120 F1 is exactly DM43, nothing more, nothing less, it does have more penetration and velocity than it because its fired from the L52 of the Leclerc. Additionally, Lanz-Odermatt formula is used for every APFSDS in the game, and according to that formula the penetration is sadly correct.

@oeufdepoule

OFL 120 G1,OFL 120 F1,120 OFLE F1B,OFL 120 F2,120 OFLE F2 are all lerclerc’s apfsds chronogically, and only the 2 first are ingame.

You are right, however you have to consider two things:

• OFL 120 F1, OFL 120 F1B, OFL 120 F2, adds nothing to OFL 120 F1, while the F1’s use a different propeller majorly, OFL 120 F2 use DU, which sadly in fact doesn’t improve the penetration, atleast according to Lanz-Odermatt formula, which means in game it wouldn’t be an upgrade. Additionally, remember that DU doesn’t mean its better automatically.

• There are little to no sure informations about 120 OFLE F2, what values does Developers should use for this round?

There is an alternative, SHARD, which have been recently trialed on the Leclerc, but it is probably too advanced for the game currently. For the moment they could add DM53, just like they did to the Ariete. Once better APFSDS comes in, we may see SHARD as well.

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@oeufdepoule

You also cannot turn fast, the response of turning without moving is way too slow for a tank supposed to have an hyperbar engine of 1500 horsepower.

There is a report open about that, made by me: Leclerc MBTs acceleration is too low // Gaijin.net // Issues
Hopefully Developers will take a look and fix it:

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@oeufdepoule

In the informations about the leclerc on WTwiki, you can see there is ERA armor. I would love to know where it is

Exactly here:

Spoiler

Take note that this is also wrong, only Leclerc SXXI should have ERA on the sides, not the others, there is a report open about that: Leclerc incorrect turret side armor // Gaijin.net // Issues

If you’d like to see, here is an infographic about what changed betwen S1, S2, S21 in the turret.

Spoiler

@oeufdepoule

The inside of the tank has nothing to separate the driver from the turret crew. There is only a rolled homogenous armor that protect nothing from everything.

Every tank is like here currently, of course there are structures, perhaps they will introduced when they will finally decide to do so.

@oeufdepoule

The most annoying part is the front. Honestly i don’t know why gaijin didn’t place armor here, in front of the pilot. A tank that weight more than 57 tons does not have armor here?

In front of the Pilot there are also its optics, how could you put composite armor here, how can he see?
A small FLIR photo where you can easily see where the driver is FYI, this is exactly where there is no armor, for obvious reason, and how it is on every tank,

Spoiler

@oeufdepoule

The AZUR kit is a joke, one time I’ve been penetrate on the NERA (not ERA) by a VT1. While the kit of russians stops APFSDS.

There is a report opened about that: AZUR NERA Incorrect Protection // Gaijin.net // Issues

Also, for your informations, me and other persons are working on getting the armor of the Leclerc fixed, especially the UFP you mentioned, so that could change.

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@oeufdepoule

Why is there only one leclerc with a thermal commander sight? As I already said, this tank is supposed to be the/one of the best, with the most advanced electronics, words of the DGA btw.

Because Leclerc S1, S2 and AZUR never had thermals for the commander in real life, this was introduced in the S21.

@oeufdepoule

That doesn’t exist in the game for now but the leclerc have an auto fire extinguishing system, so having to extinguish without being able to fire isn’t accurate.

As you said, its not a feature at the moment.

@oeufdepoule

The cammos are disgusting btw, I never saw a french tank with dark vomit green and light frog green.

I agree, about that, there is this opened: Incorrect French CARC tricolor camouflage. // Gaijin.net // Issues

@oeufdepoule

The AZUR kit, by wikipedia should be equipped with 2x9 smoke tubes.

That is not right.

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@oeufdepoule

Sorry if i did some english mistakes, and hope you’ll readd, agree, sign, explain or just care about it, france is a nation that needs player an pleasure to play, it isn’t the case rn.
Have a good day !

I can see your frustration, and about the fact we yet don’t have a proper premium, or a proper light vehicle for top tier is unfortunate, about that you can only wait for Gaijin to care and add them tho.

For a lot of issues there are reports opened and forwarded, Developers have shown that they listened to previous reports, see the Reload and Turret Rotation, both got fixed, so i’d say have a bit of patience.
For the one that don’t have a report opened yet, it will very soon.

Have a good day.

[oeufdepoule]

I don’t know if you know, but france =/= USA, USA use 693B$ for military, france use 40B$. That is the reason of QUANTITY bro, and not all the 40B go to leclerc produce, not at all. It’s expensive cause it’s expensive to produce with good materials for that buget.

[FurinaBestArchon]

@oeufdepoule

That is the reason of QUANTITY bro

What.

It’s expensive cause it’s expensive to produce with good materials for that buget.

Ah, so nobody else uses “good materials”? Just France?

Pffft…

[oeufdepoule]

thank you for the infos you gave me, but where did you saw thermal commender was introduced on the S21?
thank you!

[AlvisWisla]

OFL F1 is tied with 3BM60 for pen [3/4mm margin of error].
OFL F1 erroneously causes less spalling on armor, but that’s due to spalling based on mass in my eyes rather than basing spalling on energy.

Leclerc’s UFP is bugged. It’s visually correct, but the game doesn’t take into account the extra plate inside.

Yes, Leclerc has issues, we’ll all agree there.

Ammo is not the the best thing to complain about when there are bigger issues; and only USA, Italy, Finland, and Germany fire better rounds on their tanks in War Thunder. I don’t mean 2 - 10mm more pen either.

I will agree that SHARD should probably be added.

[WaretaGarasu]

From Marc Chassilan, “Char Leclerc”, in 2005.

Spoiler

[oeufdepoule]

oh cool ty ! you’re french?

[WaretaGarasu]

No, im not, however with other people im working on making reports on it for fixing the issues it does have.

[oeufdepoule]

ok thank you !
but i know ammo is not the the thing to complain about, that’s why there is other points
but ty !

[oeufdepoule]

for the armor, i’m complainig about the void in front of pilot’s feet, not his head
and cool you are working to fix the NERA !

[Beeschurger]

@oeufdepoule

I don’t know if you know, but france =/= USA, USA use 693B$ for military, france use 40B$. That is the reason of QUANTITY bro, and not all the 40B go to leclerc produce, not at all. It’s expensive cause it’s expensive to produce with good materials for that buget.

Those are words.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

What other armor is there supposed to be in the Lower Front Plate? Do you have any source about it?

[WaretaGarasu]

@oeufdepoule

for the armor, i’m complainig about the void in front of pilot’s feet, not his head

Feets are not protected, the LFP is not protected by NERA, so an APFSDS will just go though.

Here is also a hit distribution diagram on a Leclerc MBT based on early 1990s data that illustrates the importance of a well protected upper front hull, but you can also see that the LFP is not hitted that often:

Spoiler

Modern armored warfare experience: Around a third of the fired projectiles seem to hit the the upper front hull and glacis of MBTs. This also explains the lack of need to protect the lower front hull (See Challenger 1, Challenger 2,etc.).