Leclerc Evolution, the most advance leclerc

they have been stored at Brienne le Chateau since 2001. they are still there for all we know. they just do not use it. but if there is a situation where things go wrong, they will bring them back to services.

disposing of them is costly. keeping them cost very little. especially since the storage is already there and perfectly adapted for this purpose.

also, each round has an individual case to keep them. here are some pictures showing the storage and the OFL 105 F2 (which is the DU round for the 105mm)

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TIL. Thanks!

As I said above, France doesn’t use depleted-uranium in its ammunition anymore for environmental considerations, but also because the Minister of Defence declared in 2001 that “Les chars Leclerc sont approvisionnés exclusivement en obus flèche au tungstène OFL 120 F1 de 120 mm” (Réponse du ministère aux questions écrites de plusieurs sénateurs (Michel Doublet, Marie-Claude Beaudeau, Thierry Foucaud), Journal officiel, Sénat, Questions, 22 mars 2001, p. 1006.).

Together, these 2 claims made me think OFL 120 F2 rounds had been disposed.

So looks like OFL 120 F2 is the last depleted-uranium weapon France manufactured … which doesn’t mean France is not holding onto these rounds in case they’re needed.

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yeah, it only meant they aren’t using it anymore. it do not mean they do not have it anymore

i meant G1, i probably didn’t bother to read what i typed before entering
i agree that the F1 is a fine round but what bothers me is that the value are completely wrong in-game, like the Mass and penetration

IMHO, Leclerc XLR can be more revelent, because it’s in service and it’s not just an prototype.
But it will not add many stuff compare to Leclerc Azur. It’s a little bit like “Leclerc” and “Leclerc S2”.

A bout thir Leclerc Evo, I realy don’t know if this thing have armor on the turret.
But considering, at BR 11.7 many tanks have laser detector and APS, this Leclerc EVO can be good for for gameplay.

Do we know what the ATGMs are on top of the turret yet? Could the be Akeron MMP?

I believe they are loitering munitions, not ATGMs.

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Quick headsup since many people missed this detail: the EVO was equipped with an extra armor layer on the UFP.

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If you have sources regarding the armor resisting this or that APFSDS, please be kind enough to share it.

I will send it to you today, not sure to have all of them since I dont have a book anymore, but I can send you the name of the book, wrote by journalist during the developement of the leclerc S1, most of the information leaked come from the developement. For the apfsds-t, gaijin said that the ofl 120 F2 was just the ofl 120 F1 with “uranium appauvri”, so for gaijin it will only be like 2Omm of penetration more, the only shell we can wait for is the ofle 120 F2 (no information avaible), or the shard mk1 or mk2, but same, no information.

Armor of Leclerc tanks

Leclerc SXXI:

“Written question No. 24140 from Mr. Warsmann Jean-Luc (Union for a Popular Movement - Ardennes) published in the Official Journal on 01/09/2003 page 6776.”

Mr. Jean-Luc Warsmann draws the attention of the Minister of Defense to the nature of the armor of the future Leclerc S XXI tank mentioned in her response to question no. 21313 published in the Official Journal on August 4, 2003, page 6198. He would like to know if the tank that will soon be delivered to the French army will be equipped with armor capable of resisting depleted uranium munitions similar to those used by the American army during the war in Iraq.

Response published in the Official Journal on 27/10/2003 page 8199.

The Leclerc SXXI tanks will be equipped with a new turret armor that will provide them with better protection of the frontal arc against missiles and next-generation armor-piercing munitions.

The latest generation shells in 2003 included shells such as the 3BM46 from 1991, the DM53 from 2001, or the KEW-A2: M829A2, which dates back to before the 2000s. I couldn’t find a precise date, but a document discussing these APFSDS was published in 2000 by General Dynamics, the manufacturer of these shells, suggesting that they were produced before the 2000s.

If the DM53 has a penetration of 652mm at 10m at an angle of 0° as gaijin claim in War Thunder, we can easily deduce that at least the armor of the turret of the SXXI is superior to 652mm based on this information.

"On all the Leclerc "

According to the book “The Leclerc System” written by Stéphane Ferrard in 1992, the Leclerc.

The turret and chassis of the Leclerc tank consist of a framework made of mechanically welded steel plates onto which a set of removable boxes containing composite armor is mounted. The turret is protected by a set of twelve added boxes (six on each side), covered with a non-slip fiberglass coating. The turret is also surrounded by a set of composite boxes that serve a threefold purpose: to transport the onboard equipment, reduce the radar signature, and create spaced armor in front of the main composite armor blocks.

The turret also have reactive armor, in a video name « Le CHAR LECLERC : l’arme absolue de l’‪@Armeedeterre‬ avec visite du poste de chef de char ! », made by « xavier tytelman », a tank commander of a leclerc explained that the turret is equiped with reactive armor inside, he explained that it protected the crew from penetration of any rpg or missile (yes gaijin even the vikhr).

Self-sealing structural tanks are located at the front right of the chassis, in front of the turret containing 18 rounds of 120 mm and above it, under the plate serving as a support for the composite armor of the glacis. The frontal protection of the chassis sides is provided by three lateral pre-armors, each consisting of a composite panel covered with a steel shell.

For the mobility, the reverse speed is 38km/h in game, irl its more than 50km/h like said a pilote of a leclerc in a video name « Reportage exclusif : à bord du nouveau char Leclerc de l’armée de Terre ! » made by « automotomagazine », to be more precise, he explained that the leclerc has two different reverse gear, a kinda slow one, and a fast one for needed situation, like a combat.

The turret is also independant from the chassis, it can move in a different direction at the same time at its max speed, like it was many times show during demonstration, and even told by a crew member of the leclerc in a video, but I saldy cant find it again, I will continue to look for.

Again, in the book name « The Leclerc Systeme », it is explain that t he engine is super quiet (for a tank) , information that you can also find easily and see by yourself in many video. We know that in game, the sound of the tank are a serious probleme, there was no work made on it, and no reasearch, cant hear a tank when its further than 50m, is kinda pathetic. One of the particularities of the Hyperbar process specific to the V8X1500 engine is that it does not smoke when accelerating, it only smoke when the tank is starting, which helps reduce the infrared signature of the tank. The exhaust temperature of the TM-307 B turbine never exceeds 370°C, whatever the speed of the tank’s Diesel engine. It was a goal during the developement of the Leclerc, reducing its visibility, trying to make this tank kinda stealth compare to other actual mbt at this time.

Its for now all the informationI have, its a lot, but it would not be if gaijin worked on the leclerc before adding 4 copy paste.

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The french should have clearly adopted the swedish proposal and add wedges to Leclerc to improve protection.

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+1

Just as a friendly advice, its better if you attach the sources or screenshots of those. Nevertheless I managed to track down the original publication of the first source (and the most relevant in the set by far):


https://www.droitdesmilitaires.fr/609

This is an official, primary source. So we hit jackpot. Although its ambiguous enough to the point where some degree of interpretation is necesary. Even if I can agree that by this timeframe the reference APFSDS is most likely DM53, the source can´t clarify if the armor is meant to protect at point range, at 2km, 4km, whatever. But being reasonable it should suffice to argue for an armor value somewhere between 600-700mm. On the other hand its also explicit in that the hull did not get improved armor, likely retaining the same values as S1´s. Two extra secondary sources listed on Wikipedia also point in this same direction regarding the improved turret armor:
image
Chassillan, Marc (2005). Char Leclerc : De la guerre froide aux conflits de demain . Editions Techniques pour l’Automobile et l’Industrie. p. 191. ISBN 978-2726894385.
Chassillan, Marc (March–April 2018). “La Protection Balistiques des Chars Modernes”. No. 66. Trucks & Tanks Magazine. Caraktère. p. 76.

Further, lastly I came up with a method for guesstimating tank´s armor values based on a sourced base model and modifications of weight and armor thickness. Using the original Leclerc´s 420mm (listed in British primary sources), I was getting an estimation for SXXI of 648mm KE. Coincidence? I don´t think so.

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BTW GIAT published a patent for that. Its not great for the driver as the add on armor has an extra built in “hatch” he has to go through to get in or out of the tank.

image

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well first, wikepedia source are useless, gaijin dont want to hear about wikipedia and its fair, second weight and armor are two different thing since the weight depend about the materiels use and how much space the armor takes, so you cant guess protection of a tank just with weight change, im sorry bro but its so ridiculous.

Well its not like I wrote an exhaustive description of my method and I won´t do it now. In simple terms, I´m getting how many extra Kgs (attributable to extra armor weight) further models add over a base model together with an estimated weight-armor efficiency ratio improvement over time. There are also a lot of axiomatic and variables taken for granted. Its just a method for estimating armor for which we have little to no sources available. I rather have something like that than Gaijin making up values based on gut feeling. Though the results I´ve been getting so far have been very encouraging, I´m not publishing it yet.

On the other hand, I never said that Wikipedia was the source rather that the article listed some secondary sources and I´m reading them ATM to check if they say what the Wikipeda article states.

the thing is that, gaijin or you doing the estimation, it will in both case be estimation by people that have no 100% accurate information, you cant estimate armor without knowing what armor is there, you know the weight of composite armor by m3 ? you know the weight of the reactive armor and how much there are on the tank ? You know the weight is not only because of armor, more systeme, since there is many different armor, different weight, you can calculate your whole life, with the only information you have, the chance to be accurate are extremply low, and even if its accurate, you will not know. Im on your side I want to know all of that, but you cant make some calcul with the only information you have and hope having extremly confidential data on a tank…

Well its an estimation precisely because we don´t have 100 percent accurate information. Gaijin just uses whatever value they fancy while I think we could do better than that.

and you cant change it, gajin dont even work on vehicules they add, except if its a prenium, there is in this case a little work, but like, we saw that we are able to get more information with proof than gajin on like 90% of the vehicules in game. And the thing is that, even if we give them those information, they will just walk on that, they never listen the community, except one time when we did a massive call and stop playing. They dont care about us because people keep buying preniums, why should they listen to us if they are still winning so much money ? The best advice could give you is stop playing this game