L33/II Serie (Breda-SAFAT 12,7 mm), heavy gun for small tank

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L33/II Serie (Breda-SAFAT 12,7 mm).

History.

The CV33 is perhaps the most famous Italian tank in history, but some of its versions are less famous. Among these, one known as the L33/II Rearmed Series stands out. Some time after the start of the Second World War, the limitations of the CV33’s armament began to be noticed, and it was decided to rearm some examples with heavier weapons. From 1941 Ansaldo equipped some of these tanks with a 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT heavy machine gun of aeronautic origin. The tanks in question managed to reach the front and a photo of one of these vehicles knocked out by Australian units is also known, although there are no reports on the effectiveness of the change in armament. It would be a good addition as a very low tier tank given its elusive profile and armory capable of causing big problems for armored cars and light tanks.

Armaments and propulsion.

The tank was armed with a Breda-SAFAT heavy machine gun in 12.7 mm caliber equipped with a belt magazine with a 50-round box. The weapon was loaded from the left.
The tank was also powered by a Fiat 4-cylinder 2746 cc petrol engine with 43 HP of power, which allowed it to reach a maximum speed of 42 km/h.

Possible statcard.

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Specifications.

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Crew: 2
Length: 3.2m
Width: 1.46 m
Height: 1.3m
Weight: 3.2 t
Engine: Fiat 4 cylinder 2746 cc petrol
Power: 43 hp
Weight/power ratio 13.87 hp/t
Maximum speed: 42 km/h
Autonomy: 130 km
Maximum gradient: 45%
Armament: 1x Breda-SAFAT 12.7 mm
Armor: 14-8 mm

Pictures and drawnings.

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Sources.

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CV33 - Wikipedia
Breda-SAFAT - Wikipedia
SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM: Le mitragliatrici Breda-SAFAT da 7,7 mm e 12,7 mm
SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM: Il Carro Veloce CV33 (ridenominato in seguito carro L3/33)
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/ww2_italian_tanks.php
Italian tankette L3/33
L 3-35 Light Tank
https://groups.google.com/g/it.cultura.storia.militare/c/P1LXnPggasU

3 Likes

This can be better than one we have in game, because of its rate of fire

1 Like

The variant with an anti-tank rifle is already too weak for the game, let alone this!
-1

5 Likes

Try to re-valuate this. Give it a chance.

2 Likes

I agree, the Breda-Safat machine gun will struggle to penetrate even weaker armor. The AP rounds have 20mm at 10 m with 0 degrees angle, any slight inclination and the penetration drops.

12.7 mm Breda-Safat rounds:

This vehicle was meant to be used against infantry in this configuration, not armored vehicles.

3 Likes

Sadly, no infrantry in WT.

1 Like

With 21mm you can get through light tanks such as the T-26 and stuff. And even through the side or turret front of the BT tanks.
(I wouldnt play it, i dont play italy in general except some rare times, but still.)

21 mm is at 10 metres, 0 degrees inclination, most of the time you will not be in that position. The 20mm cannon on the existing L3/33 already struggles with penetration and has better penetration values:

In comparison, this is the US .50cal Machine gun penetration values:

Compare it again with the 12.7 mm Breda-Safat:

In reality, you will get AT BEST ~16mm of penetration in most scenarios (because most of the times you will not get the chance to shoot at 0 degrees angle and you will engage at more than 10 meters, ideally at ~100 m) plus you’re limited by the poor gun traverse angles.

I don’t know if you have access to this vehicle, but AMC.34 YR was removed exactly because it struggled to kill anything and had slightly better penetration values + an explosive filler (yet it failed to pen even 10mm of armor if the angle was not perfect). Plus it has a turret, so it allowed it for better aiming and positioning: AMC.34 YR - War Thunder Wiki

Penetration values of AMC.34:

I do have the AMC 34 (while hard to use is quite fun tbh), i didnt even know it was still removed, as back in the day they gave all other vehicles back. I know the penetration is bad, but still 16mm is sufficent to penetrate the light tanks.

No shot.
This would by far be the worst vehicle in the game if added and we already have some practically non-functional ones.

1 Like

+1

1 Like

Yes the SAFAT was bad compared as the M2. (A lot less power of the ammo irl).

Maybe it should exist in Enlisted, it will have a better time than in War Thunder. Even in real life, this “tankette” was meant to be used only against infantry, not armored vehicles.
Too many downsides for it and the fire rate won’t compensate for a weaker gun than the 20mm variant we already have in game. It will work against unprotected vehicles like AA trucks, but any armored vehicle, even the T-26 or the Tetrarch will manage to kill you before you get to kill it’s crew.

1 Like

-1. The Breda Safat is useless against ground targets.

1 Like

Not much use against air targets either with the lack of turret

1 Like

Unless you get some idiot pointing at you head on, it wouldn’t be usable as a SPAA vehicle.

Not like it’s a usable vehicles to begin with

1 Like

50%-50%.

There are no percentages. There is yes, there is situational, there is no.
This is a no, it is never a good vehicle to pick over anything else and barely performs even in the odd chance it gets to make a kill.

1 Like

more like 5%. That thing gets only 21 mm of pen at a distance of 0 meters and at angle of 0. Even reserves like the I-go ko or M2A4 are going to be completely impervious to that gun.
Not to mention that it also loses a lot of penetration over distance.