I think this might be a Kfir C2 regarding the number 979. IAI did plan once to export it to some LATAM country, but instead giving it an 9K50 engine and other stuff. I don’t think there is a proper photo showing it with it’s engine, but this could be one of those photos where it is shown with a Litening pod (pure speculation). Now it just sits around engine-less
If it was with the 9K50 then it must be Argentina. Regardless I think the image above is from before it was retired from IAF service. Also I just googled the tail number and it look like the jet is a weird C.2/C.7 hybrid given some of the antenna it has. Plus the C.2 doesnt have an MFD like the C.7 does.
Hello. You caught my eye with this, so I decided to contact someone more knowledgeable on the subject, an expert on Kfirs one might say.
His response was as follows:
“This is Kfir C.2 979, an experimental airframe used by IAI to test avionics and weapon implementations for the Kfir series. It’s non-standard so making an argument [“The one ingame should get the TGP”] based on it is mute. It was also seen for example carrying a Derby missile in a promotional video, doesn’t mean it could actually launch it. It’s an experimental airframe and only got access to more modern weapons outside of service in the IAF.”
Hope this clears everything up.
This person wouldnt happen to be from the DCS Kfir module discord? I also wouldnt call it mute per se, it confirms pre upgrade Kfirs could use a targeting pod with existing equipment but whether or not Gaijin want to take that into account and implement it is up to them. Derby and the EL/M-2001B radar is a whole different rabbit hole but in short it can carry and fire the missile but its useless in the scope of the game. I will conceed though it was likely out of IAF service when it received the Litening pod.
No, they were a former suggestion moderator on the forums here. They are the most knowledgeable person I’m aware of in the War Thunder Israeli vehicle research communities online when it comes to the Kfir aircraft in particular.
Well no, it doesn’t. Modifications were made to a testbed to allow for its testing, there is no confirmation C.2s were compatible by default that you speak of. Burden of proof lies with you to prove this, which you have not. In service Kfirs not only didn’t use this, but couldn’t. If you want to make a suggestion for this testbed to be a separate aircraft represented ingame, which is all it can be, be my guest. Through gaijin’s rules of implementation, it was an Israeli demonstrator meaning it can be added to the tree as an independent vehicle given the nation of operation and origin, and in this regard IAF service doesn’t matter aside from the fact it means the C.2 ingame can’t receive any of this.
I’m not aware of anything thats suggests it can fire, or did fire the missile at any point in its history. It was likely used for promotional marketing materials, not testing of usage/integration. He meant it as an example in relation to its usage as a testbed, purely that.
Oh I’m not saying modifications werent made to this aircraft, in fact they absolutly were. This specific Kfir was upgraded from C.2 to C.7 at some point, you can tell because of some C.7 specific antennas and this official IAI document that was posted by OP of 979 the very jet in question, where it is captioned as a C.7 by IAI.
It would also be impossible for a C.2 to use the targeting pod because it simply didnt have an MFD in the cockpit, unlike the C.7, that did. What I mean by pre upgrade Kfir is pre Kfir 2000, C.10, or C.12.
So yes a C.7 (not C.2) could theorethically carry a targeting pod and Griffin LGBs. Maybe not in official IAF service but that doesnt detract from the capability. I think thats proof enough but Ill continue to look into it anyway.
Here im not referencing 979 specifically but more broadly the radar. Colombian Kfir C.12s which are just C.10s with the EL/M-2001B radar, regualarly carry live Derbys on CAPs. Even though the -2001B isnt a BVR radar the Derby can be launched with a Datalink track from a Kfir C.10 with the -2032 or -2052 radar or other ground and air based radars such as GCI or AWACS.
C.12 with live Derbys
C.12 with inert Derbys
But this is really a side argument.
I assume this image is also from that official IAI book, when translated states the following.
“The changes, which included strengthening the wing and the undercarriage, improved its carrying capacity for air-to-air or air-to-ground missions. The additional thrust of approximately 450 kg for takeoff alone allowed for an increase in the weight of armament or fuel that the aircraft could carry. A power system (piloting, armament and navigation) and advanced air defense systems were installed. Changes were also made to the cockpit design, including an improved HOTAS system that allows the pilot to fly the aircraft in combat and receive all data on an overhead display unit, without having to look at the instrument panel.”
“The Kfir C7, like its predecessor, the Kfir C2, carries two additional armament mounting points at the wing root, for a total of nine points.”
“The development of the Kfir C7 came after the Israeli Air Force began to acquire the F-15 and F-16 aircraft, which were better suited for air combat due to their greater maneuverability and powerful engines. Although the Israeli Kfir’s speed was equal to or greater than that of the American aircraft, its primary mission was air-to-ground. They could carry laser designators and special pods for guiding sophisticated bombs.”
“The Kfir C7 aircraft, which were the last model of the Kfir to enter service with the Israeli Air Force, were operated by a fighter squadron that operated from the Uvda Air Force Base in the Negev and later moved to Hatzor.”
This is as clear as it gets when it comes to getting confirmation from an official source.
“They could carry laser designators and special pods for guiding sophisticated bombs.” -In reference to the Kfir C.7
I shall refer to it as a C.7 going forward then. One of our online sources referred to it as a C.2, so I simply called it that because of this.
Burden of proof falls to you for this. The sourcing below this message is too vague in its description, and likely refers to the Pave Penny spotting pod if anything. Your point here is also contradictory to say “maybe not in official IAF service”, as you’re admitting these aircraft are not compatible by default, it is presumed to lack a capability unless proven otherwise. Outside of this singular image, we lack significant proof any C.7 was capable of these things by default, and as such as I said earlier: the C.7 ingame would not be able to receive these, this aircraft can be suggested and added as its own independent aircraft.
I’m am aware of these, as well as the TC.10s, doing this. It was purely for usage through datalink, a feature we don’t have across platforms ingame, as such not a viable addition even with a C.12/TC.10, unless gaijin finally caves to demands for multi-player systems like this and buddy lasing.
We also lack anything that suggests this testbed would have received modifications to allow for this. Again proof is required, more than just it carrying the missile.
Yet this source is still too vague, it needs to be more specific for gaijin to accept it for implementation. We know trans have proof of Pave Penny pods, but anything beyond that and what this book is referring to has not been seen. Without specific proof of an in service aircraft using it, or primary sources, it cannot be added to the variant ingame.
I’ll conceed for now, until I can find more information. Which is unlikely because Israel makes it a pain in the ass to find anything.
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Ain’t that the truth, one of the harder nations to research with they document and still have such old things classified, and especially how poorly documented a lot of vehicles are with so few sources available to them.
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