Japanese Boeing B-17D

[Grzegames]

[Would you like to see this in-game?]

• Yes
• No

Japanese Boeing B-17D (ボーイングB-17D)
The Imperial Japanese Air Force (IJAAF) in 1941 captured a pair of damaged B-17D bombers in the Philippines, from which one operational B-17D aircraft was assembled. This aircraft was used for research and propaganda purposes. The plane was probably destroyed in 1945 during an air raid.
History
In October 1941, 35 B-17D bombers from the 19th Bomb Group were delivered to Clark Field in the Philippines, but soon after two squadrons were transferred to Del Monte Field airfield in Mindanao. When the Japanese attacked Clark Field on December 8, they managed to damage all 17 or 19 bombers stationed there. The mechanics immediately attempted to repair the planes and managed to repair probably only 3 bombers at Clark Field. On 10 December, the 19th Bomb Group had 18 B-17D bombers, of which only 12 were operational. On that day, an evacuation to Australia was ordered, and it was decided to destroy the damaged planes. After the Japanese occupied the airport, a team of experts from Giken, the Institute of Technical Research of Military Aviation, arrived at the site to study modern American technology. The Japanese began to collect all the useful parts to try to repair one of the B-17 aircraft, which they succeeded in and in 1942, after quick tests, the aircraft with serial number 40-3095 with a specially selected crew took off and flew to Japan. After reaching Japan, the aircraft was put on display at the captured aircraft exhibition. The aircraft was then tested from all angles and its photos were used to train pilots in recognizing enemy aircraft and how to attack them. In the following years (1943-1944), the aircraft was used in propaganda and training films, where it appeared in American livery. Probably this plane was later taken to the Tokorazawa airfield, where the Japanese kept planes that were to go to the museum after the war (there were, among others, Ju 87-K and Ki-20). In 1945, the airfield was destroyed during a B-29 raid and the planes kept there were burned.

Photos of the Japanese Boeing B-17D

Japanese Boeing B-17D at Clark Field^

Japanese Boeing B-17D flies to Japan (1942)^

Japanese Boeing B-17D on display (1942)^

Japanese Boeing B-17D during tests^

Japanese Boeing B-17D in formation with B-17E^

Construction description
The Boeing B-17D is a heavy four-engine bomber in a classic layout. This aircraft is similar to the B-17E, so I will use it to compare the main differences.

1. The tail is in the shape of a “shark fin”, which means it’s just less massive
2. There is no tail gunner in the plane
3. The plane does not have a dorsal turret
4. Instead of a movable abdominal turret, there is an abdominal bathtub in which a double M2 machine gun is mounted facing backwards
5. Side shooters have teardrop-shaped windows instead of square windows.

Apart from these differences, the Boeing B-17D and B-17E aircraft are structurally identical.

Technical sketches

Comparison of the B-17D with other B-17s

Armament
The Boeing B-17D was equipped with 7 machine guns. A single 7.62mm AN/M2 machine gun was mounted in the nose, which could be mounted on 6 different mounts (2 at the front and two on each side of the nose), a double 12.7mm AN/M2 machine gun was mounted in the hump of the aircraft, then a double 12.7mm AN/M2 machine gun directed backwards was mounted in the nacelle under the fuselage. On the sides of the fuselage, single 12.7 mm AN/M2 machine guns were mounted in teardrop-shaped shields. The aircraft could carry a load of 4800 pounds of bombs.

Deployment of defensive weapons

General characteristics

• Crew: 9
• Length: 20.69 m
• Wingspan: 31.63 m
• Height: 4.7 m
• Wing area: 131.92 m2
• Empty weight: 14,045 kg
• Take-off Weight: 17,835 kg
• Powerplant: 4 × Wright GR-1820-65 Cyclone, takeoff power 895 kW (1200 hp)

Performance

• Maximum speed: 512 km/h
• Cruise Speed: 365 km/h
• Range: 5,472 km
• Service ceiling: 11,278 m

Armament

1. Guns:

• 1 x 7.62mm AN/M2 mobile machine gun in the nose
• 2 x 12.7mm AN/M2 movable machine gun with a rake on the back
• 2 x 12.7mm AN/M2 movable machine gun in the nacelle
• 1 x 12.7mm AN/M2 Browning Machine Gun, 2 x Beam Turrets

2. Bombs:

• Maximum payload: 4800 pounds (2176 kg) of bombs

Summary
The Japanese Boeing B-17D would be an interesting addition to the Japanese B-17E in War Thunder. Due to its different design, it will provide the player with a new experience and a new story to learn. For me, it is perfect for a training camp with the Japanese B-17E, which is already in the game.

Internet sources

The Surprising Story of Japan’s B-17 Fleet (historynet.com)
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress Captured by Japan - Destination’s Journey (destinationsjourney.com)
Captured B-17 (j-aircraft.com)
Asisbiz Captured Boeing B-17D in Japanese livery was flown to Japan for technical evaluation 01
List of Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress variants - Wikipedia
B-17 (航空機) - Wikipedia
B-17’s of Japan – The Jive Bomber (thejivebombers.com)
Уголок неба ¦ Boeing B-17D Flying Fortress (airwar.ru)
Boeing B-17D Flying Fortress : Boeing (valka.cz)
B-17D wish for gunners (sas1946.com)

Book sources

• 001 - B17 P.1 | PDF (scribd.com)
• 日本軍鹵獲機秘録 (Secret records of captured aircraft of the Japan army) page 38-39,62-63,88-89
• 敵機解剖 : 大東亜戦・鹵獲・撃墜撃破飛行機写真集 - 国立国会図書館デジタルコレクション (ndl.go.jp)

[LeonDasPro]

Although the aircraft is an interesting subject I can’t see it as a valid choice for Japan any time in the near future, mainly due to its adhoc construction and almost certainly never having carried any weaponry under it’s new ownership.

Maybe a long way down the line when new vehicle options thin out, but only if the shark tail B-17s (Y1B17 through B-17D) have been already been added to US and British trees.

[CMOT4356]

No The japense do not need this they already have one don’t need another

[jon_man1199]

I absolutely love the early Shark Tail B-17s, It’s a shame the US still doesn’t have one in the tech tree. This gets my +1 for both the US and Japanese trees!

As a fun fact, there is a single surviving B-17D that is under conservation at the National Museum of the US Air Force and there is also currently a project to rebuild a flightworthy B-17C

[Pangolin_Fan]

We don’t need more copy paste japanese-american planes

[Grzegames]

Please tell me where is the B-17D in War Thunder? If you find it, write to me

[Pangolin_Fan]

Same plane with a different name is still copy paste. P-51D-20 and D-5 are both identical

[MAUSWAFFE]

It’s very much not identical. I recommend reading the suggestion again, specifically the part where it’s compared to the B-17E found in the game.

[WreckingAres283]

B-17D requires an entirely new Model, it wouldn’t be C&P at all.

Other:

[Pangolin_Fan]

It just has less turrets
it adds nothing new

[Grzegames]

More specifically, it has different beam turrets, a different tail, instead of a ventral turret there is a gondola similar to the one in the He-111 and a few other changes that no other B-17 from War Thunder has. According to your logic, the Leopard 2 and Tiger tanks should be removed, because they also have a gun and tracks like the Panzer II, which means they are just copy-paste.

[LeonDasPro]

Of course it’s just a cut & paste of the later E, well except for a few small things…

The entire rear fuselage behind the wing with its ‘shark tail’

The entire nose section in front of the cockpit.

The use of a 4 seat cockpit and extra side windows.

A revised centre fuselage with different navigation and radio operator stations due to the change of cockpit seating, bulkheads and armament.

Different defensive armament locations with fully manual mounts.

There were alterations to the wings and engine but these were relatively minor. Other bits and pieces too, but many would be irrelevant to WT modelling.

But yeah, apart from that it’s 100% cut & paste!

[jon_man1199]

Granted, there are a few parts that share commonality with the E model, which is part of the reason the B-17C rebuild has progressed as rapidly as it has. Right now, they’re fundraising for complicated stuff like the nose section and the super complex tail cone, which will require substantial work to rebuild, being that a large chunk of it is solid hand-molded plexiglass

[HolmanTheHorror]

No. Japan shouldn’t have any B-17s in the first place, and they already have the B-17E, which is one too many. It doesn’t make sense to give them another, earlier, B-17 as a premium, and it would be a, frankly, shit reward as an event vehicle given how Gaijin severely neglects bomber gameplay, and how they aren’t particularly useful for ground RB unless you have an exceptionally large bomb. Gaijin would probably go for a fighter or strike aircraft before a multi-engine bomber.

@WreckingAres283

B-17D requires an entirely new Model, it wouldn’t be C&P at all.

Other:

That’s, honestly, a reason it shouldn’t be added in the context of this suggestion. In order for it to be added, the B-17D for the Japanese TT would take away dev time from indigenous Japanese designs that would all make for far better additions to the Japanese TT, and if it’s added after the US team implements the B-17D, it would become copy-paste.

[MAUSWAFFE]

@HolmanTheHorror

In order for it to be added, the B-17D for the Japanese TT would take away dev time from indigenous Japanese designs that would all make for far better additions to the Japanese TT

Except it wouldn’t. As you also stated it could be added to multiple trees, meaning you get two vehicles for the dev time of one. One of which would be a welcome tech tree addition for the US tree and the other a nice premium opportunity for Japanese players to get a different aircraft and for Gaijin to make some money.

@HolmanTheHorror

it would become copy-paste

As a premium, meaning nobody is forced to play it. Since there could be a tech tree plane in the US tree it’s nothing too unique locked behind a paywall either.

At this point being “copy paste” is beneficial to players when compared to unique premium locked planes.

[HolmanTheHorror]

@MAUSWAFFE

Except it wouldn’t. As you also stated it could be added to multiple trees, meaning you get two vehicles for the dev time of one. One of which would be a welcome tech tree addition for the US tree and the other a nice premium opportunity for Japanese players to get a different aircraft and for Gaijin to make some money.

That doesn’t make it not copy paste, and the game has more than enough of such vehicles as it is that were actually put into service. Moreover, by this logic, you can justify giving the US shit like the Ho 229 and Kikka. If you want to play a nation’s vehicles, you should have to PLAY that nation.

@MAUSWAFFE

As a premium, meaning nobody is forced to play it. Since there could be a tech tree plane in the US tree it’s nothing too unique locked behind a paywall either.

It would be better if, instead, they made a premium version of an already existing Japanese bomber based off of a specific IRL example, or a minor variant. I don’t see why it’s a choice between captured/evaluated and prototype vehicles.

[Gale_Cleven]

-1, Because they already have one, maybe as a event vehicle yes.

[foxtrot19673]

+1, it would be nice, also idgaf about “copy pastes”, just give them to meeeeeee