With the introduction of the SU-34 this upcoming update I think it’s time to shed some light on the worst 13.7 in-game yet again. The Fullback will be introduced at the BR of 13.3 whilst objectively being better than the J-11A in almost all possible ways.
Better engines, better RWR, significantly better radar, debatably better FM, wider choice of ordinances for all roles and all of this at a lower BR.
The J-11A is already a handicapped vehicle with only one channel of DL and it inheriting the same RWR as found on the regular J-11 and that being the SPO-15LM (10.3/10.7 level of RWR).
China has only one viable top tier aircraft excluding premiums/squadrons and that being the J-10A, whilst appreciated that doesn’t mean we should neglect aircraft like the J-11A and especially when they’re end of the line vehicles.
A simple solution would be to move the J-11A down to 13.3 and to introduce a new vehicle to replace it in the near future (that either being the SU-30MKII or J-11B/J-15 (preferably the J-15 lmao).
Better engines on Su-34 means very little when the aircraft has tons of extra weight and way worse TW ratio. Su-34 is not a dedicated fighter and it’s going to have abysmal dogfight capability after the first one or two turns. It also takes forever to accelerate from what I see. I can agree with RWR on J-11A but other than that I don’t really see how it will be equal to or worse than Su-34 in air battles.
Su-34 is not a dedicated fighter and it’s going to have abysmal dogfight capability after the first one or two turns
All SU-27s in-game bleed a significant amount of speed on each hard turn, the SU-34 has the advantage of canards which significantly increases it’s potential AOA.
I can agree with RWR on J-11A but other than that I don’t really see how it will be equal to or worse than Su-34 in air battles
The J-11A lacks the ability to guide multiple ARH missiles which makes it the worst BVR capable aircraft at 13.7, the radar on it is the N001 which is the worst radar found at 13.7 and the missile kit is subpar for what it faces.
The SU-34 does everything the J-11A can do but better - I can make a lengthy list of all of the disadvantages the J-11A has over the SU-34 if you don’t believe me lol.
The Su-34 is also like 8 tons heavier for 1600kgf extra power.
Not really. You can do goofy stuff at low speeds but beyond that its useless. Its 8 tons heavier so it loses a shit ton of speed (even more than the Flankers), its acceleration is mid, and it has lower TWR. The Su-34 also has no HMD so keep that in mind.
Should the J-11A go to 13.3? Yeah probably, but raising the max BR is just so much better.
Correct, you lack the ability to guide multiple missiles at once over longer ranges and the radar itself isn’t really great. But considering the fact that even in something like F-15 or F-16 I rarely fire over 25km range I think guiding multiple Fox-3s at the same time isn’t really that much of an advantage. If we get better/longer range Fox-3s however this might change and I can agree with you about that being a real deal breaker.
My main complaint about it are mostly focused on 1. its radar really sucks with 60 degree search and the slow scan speeds, also doesn’t help to have one of the worst BVR missiles. 2. It carries less missiles than Su27SM, so it is overall ‘worse’ in every aspect in comparison. 3. nothing to do with ARB, just that in GRB it is same BR as Su27SM and F15C, despite worse capability in antiair, and not having any guided bombs.
Just regarding throwing Fox3s at 25km range, it is still important, I generally throw a missile or two at 20+km just as a kind of gamble, although trying to get a kill in dogfight is still normal case. (I use J10)
Don’t count on Gaijin adjusting BRs, the A-10C was introduced at a ridiculously low BR and many people assumed it would be adjusted in the live server and it didn’t.
The SU-34 is very likely to be implemented at 13.3 without change.
I’m a British/Chinese main and have played the SHAR FA.2 before and the regular Tornado F.3, both need to be moved down to 13.0 alongside the F-4F ICE. Two wrongs don’t make a right, just because these aircraft sit at 13.3 doesn’t mean the J-11A should suffer at 13.7.
The Su-34 is also like 8 tons heavier for 1600kgf extra power
I don’t think you understand, the thrust of an engine can mean a lot even if the aircraft it’s placed on is heavy or not. The maximum speed of an aircraft will help extend the range of said missile placed on said aircraft and in this case the R-77 on the SU-34 compared to the RVV-AE on the J-11A.
An on top of this you have a significantly better “PESA” radar (not correctly modelled in-game) which far outperforms the mediocre N001 retained from the previous J-11/SU-27SK also found on the J-11A.
All of this adds up, the SU-34 is a overall more capable aircraft for BVR and especially when you take into account DL channels, the J-11A only has one to put that into perspective (practically functions as a SARH missile until terminal phase).
You can do goofy stuff at low speeds but beyond that its useless
Still a more manoeuvrable aircraft at closer ranges compared to the J-11A, the absence of a HMS will be a hindrance but this is made up by it’s insane amount of AOA potential.
The situational awareness found on the SU-34 is also not comparable to the J-11A as well, the SPO-15LM at 13.7 is a genuine crime and the UV MAWS is a hit or miss as it can be set off by nearly anything.
It goes far if you read what is being spoken in the discussion instead of reading just the tittle, I mentioned that the SHAR FA.2 should go down to 13.0 and the AV-8B+ can remain at 13.3.
“I’m a British /Chinese main and have played the SHAR FA.2 before and the regular Tornado F.3 , both need to be moved down to 13.0 alongside the F-4F ICE”
When I tested the Su-34 on the dev its not at all noticably faster than the Flanker probably due to added drag from the canards and larger overall body. In fact, it accelerates slower due to the lower TWR and loses more speed when turning.
Sure I can agree with this.
Its a lot more than a hinderance, its a detriment. The lack of an HMS makes it difficult to fire offbore fox 2s and quickly lock on a target. The AoA is good at low speeds but that’s it. What’s the point of AoA if you can’t pair it with HOBS?
The only thing I consider an upgrade from the Flanker is the radar.
Also I forgot to mention the Su-34 drinks a lot of fuel, like a lot. You’d need to bring like 40mins of fuel and 40mins of fuel on an Su-34 is heavy.
The FM of the SU-27 isn’t as bad as the FM of the SHAR FA.2, I have a talisman on that thing and love my Harriers, I’d kill to see it be moved down to 12.7.
When I tested the Su-34 on the dev its not at all noticably faster than the Flanker
Acceleration is less irrelevant at higher altitudes where maximum speed is more significant, the faster you’re going the further your missiles will reach and with a faster scanning radar which will hold soft lock far better I’d consider the SU-34 a far better aircraft than the J-11A for BVR.
The RWR on the SU-34 and that being the SPO-150 can discriminate different types of aircraft, in BVR this is VERY important as you know what aircraft your engaging and what it’s good and bad at.
Its a lot more than a hinderance, its a detriment. The lack of an HMS makes it difficult to fire offbore fox 2s
And that’s exactly why it doesn’t sit at 13.3, you can’t have everything with a single aircraft or at this time frame at least. The J-11A does have the advantage of having a HMS but that’s really it (MAWS is more a** than helpful).
Also I forgot to mention the Su-34 drinks a lot of fuel
Good fuel management can get one very far, this is basically essential for most modern afterburning aircraft with few exceptions. The SU-34 is also one of the only and if not only Flanker variants which get a external fuel tank to levy this exact issue, funny you forget that part.
