M2K changes might be overdone, unfortunately. We will need to see when I have time to test, or if others can test rn. I have three solid sources for the M2K turn rates and such to compare. The Gripen should follow a similar sustained curve, but the instantaneous capabilities of the canard are going to come with more available AoA, higher rates, but also likely higher bleed depending on conditions. It is complex and difficult to model when the current FM acts unlike that of a canard delta with relaxed stability.
The problem stems primarily from them giving it the correct sustained turn rate but the FM utilizing the canards as though it is a statically stable airframe. This means the canard is providing to overall positive lift when it shouldn’t be… It needs reworked from the ground up and they can’t do that rn.
The F-16 is overperforming some but not to the same degree because the elevators are not contributing to overall lift and it has been amended in other ways that the FM can handle.
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Yeah I saw your reports and remember them, I just thought there might be additonal sources that can be used. Because I guess for now, the DEVs decided to make them like this for balance.
Maybe also because of game limitations but with next patches ability to seperate CM’s, we at least won’t waste as many BOL packages anymore.
Take your time mate, seems like a lot of FM are going on recently, if I remember correctly @skilz2kil was working on it as well.
I’m just hoping for a better, more accurate MiG-29 one day ;)
I’m also curious on the gripen FM changes, let’s hope it gets a lit bit less of the UFO feeling like the blk 10.
Yep, i had some irl stuff come up i had to get sorted first haha - i should be able to continue on with what i was doing this week
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Was wondering if the gripen for nerfed lately ?
Matched a few guys and felt like it was easier to do something against it, even tho it’s still insanely strong.
I feel like it rate worse than it used to.
That’s a good change, it feels way less broken
well sure. but “broken” or not shouldn’t be a factor in changing a vehicles stats, it should be as close to IRL as possible.
Which it might be, i don’t know.
its just a bit sad that now, after this change, the JAS39 has a worse turn rate than the Viggens had before they got theirs changed as well.
So basically the sustained turn rate of the newest plane is now worse than the previous one was before the changes.
(Viggen before was 15.5 deg/s and is now 14.2deg/s. JAS39 turn rate is now 15deg/s)
this seems to low for the JAS39 given this threads discussions on the turn rate.
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Iırc some sources states that JAS39 should have 18-20 degree sustained turn rate.
Yep, But ill also add to my previous statement that i have done no meassuring and i’m going solely on the “turn time” numbers on the stat cards.
Edit:
Mig_23 even did research on this and made a report on it when gripens turn rate at release was 25deg/s
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/YKhI5oNKuwKG
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They did it too much.
Previous report clearly states that Gripen should have 20 degree per second but right now it doesnt even come close to what it should be.
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@MiG_23M Hey, do you have the possibility to test this new turn rate?
i don’t know how to do stuff like that (but if you have the time i would love to learn).
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I agree with you, wholeheartedly.
FM should be as close to their irl counterparts, it favors better balancing, if it has a realistic FM it’s easier to balance than changing it every 2 month.
Gripen still feels weird because canards behave unlike they should, at least it’s no longer broken and may lose to the other UFO that is the F16A and I’m quite happy with it.
We’ll have to wait and see.
Thanks for the answer peeps !
New data suggests it is still overperforming slightly in rate and heavily in SEP. I’ll be able to write more details in a few days. 20 deg/s sustained turn is likely possible, but not on full fuel load. Likely not even on half.
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I don’t think they ever tuned the flight model like they said in changelog
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Still the 15 deg/s seems pretty unrealistic, it seems more like gaijin placing a bandaid on a problem they either don’t care to fix or dont know how to fix. Ive been dogfighting against the gripens recently in some customs and in actual matches with my f16 and im winning nost of my fights cause im able to outturn them. I think if they fix SEP they should change back the their turning cause right now they dint seem like a 4th gen fighter to fight against.
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I mean the F-16 is overperforming heavily as well right ?
I don’t think the F-16 is the best point of comparison.
But yes it does seem to lose to the F-16 which is a great start from how BS the FM was previously
Who said it’s 15 deg/s? It’s certainly not worse than the phantoms right now.
Not in sustained turn rate necessarily. Only in stability and AoA beyond 25°, which it never exceeds in normal air RB outside of stalls.
The Gripen exceeded the specific excess power of superior energy maneuverability fighters like the F-16 by 2x before these changes. I’ll test it again soon… But it was quite absurd and the overperformance translated to air RB as well.
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Necronomica mentioned it. Also it definitely isnt accurate rn that a min fuel gripen cant turn with an f16.
That’s not surprising. No way the US was left unable to be the meta nation. Just wait until we get the Typhoon that cant out-turn a mig-23 or F-4
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