Yeah, I meant it’s too harsh in order to move it down when already it’s not performing good.
IS-2 (1944) and something like a Tiger II (H) shouldn’t be at the same BR at current moment in time.
With volumetric you miss the right spot by 10cm and you non-pen with Jagdtiger.
Tiger has a huge flat turret face you can reliably hit from 1000m away.
Also Tiger II is slow as hell nowadays.
1 Like
“huge” is an exaggeration, especially given that if you so much as scrape the gun shield the round evaporates, and it’s a lot more painful getting that happen in an IS-2 than a Tiger 2 given the respective reload speeds.
1 Like
One of the big truths about War Thunder is that the snail giveth and the snail taketh away. Every time I shoot and my round gets eaten by the aether and I die, I have to remind myself that for every kill I’m denied this way, there is also a time where I lived and I should have died.
I’ve posted this screenshot before, but after a Frozen Pass match where I survived an IS-2 shot and killed him, I went back to check server replay to understand where exactly he hit me and how come I survived. Lo and behold:
The proud man knows all the times volumetric and desync screwed him over. The wise man knows all the times volumetric and desync saved his ass. (Ancient Chinese proverb)
3 Likes
I think the reload could also be buffed.
The Tiger II has very long 21-22kg rounds, the IS-2 25kg shells and maybe 16kg propellant charges.
Shouldn’t take more than twice as long to reload than the long 88.
IS-2 and IS-4M should have a increased RoF, while the cramped and poorly designed IS-3 should keep the crappy long reload.
The IS-4M was basically a heavily armored IS-2 but ended up being too heavy to replace the IS-2.
3 Likes
Yeah but you also angle the turret 30° and almost any tank can easily penetrate the turret, while becoming a huge target for any cannon that could go through the front anyway.
It’s only effective from the front. Almost like a TD.
Other heavy tanks can turn their turrets and have much more effective armor.
3 Likes
The problem with showing images is that, with the penetration model so broken, they’re no longer reliable evidence. Years ago, penetrations worked much better, so an image was sufficient to demonstrate things. Now the game has such a terrible RNG system that your bullets can ricochet off areas that are literally weak points with a 100% chance of penetration, or a bullet can pierce your most heavily armored area, making penetration impossible under normal conditions.
Regarding the IS-2, I think it’s a pretty competent tank, only slightly inferior to the Tiger 2, and my opinion is from before the Tiger 2’s speed reduction.
The reload situation, compared to historical, is really indefensible. I say this as someone who’s a big enjoyer of the Tiger II’s reload, it’s what keeps it competitive even after the engine nerfs, and it balances out the ammo rack weakness it has. But… well, I’m sure you’ve read the same posts I’ve read on Tank Archives. War Thunder is very generous with the reload of the Tiger II and very un-generous with the reload of the IS-2.
I’ll see if I can find them for anyone else who’s interested.
Or like a fat Panther. Big difference though is that you have a much easier time shooting and scooting. It’s a great brawler if you side-scrape a lot and hide your turret behind buildings on the many city maps we play in. While I dislike brawling in Panthers, I like brawling in Tiger IIs.
At the end of the day, they also get huge reload penalties, so imho in the end it works out alright.
I’m not really trying to “prove” anything specific with that image, I’m just showing that while it’s true that shooting IS-2s can feel a lot like RNG because of volumetric and desync, the IS-2s can also get screwed by volumetric and desync when shooting the flat turret face of a Tiger II.
1 Like
That’s true, I’m just thinking about the specific scenario when you run face to face into each other and are both trying to get that 1st shot off.
I do like it, but you have to admit that having your shell disappear into a volumetric black hole is painful with it’s reload
This about IS series reload:
And this about Tiger II reload:
It’s all about probability and size. It’s way easier to work around the mantlet of Tiger II than to work around angles of IS-2 1944 turret. Yes, Tiger II turret is more reliable in general. IS-2 is way more frustrating. All thanks to “great” penetration mechanics of the game that allow 45mm T-34-41 turet front to stop 8-9 90-130 penetration shots in a row (me and Pz IV were unloading on it from a few hundrsd meters) because every single one struck mantlet edge or barrel edge.
IS-2 moves way faster, so IS-2 gets more random bounces as it’s way easier to hit accuratle an object crawling vs IS-2 hauling a55 in reverse :E
I understand, stupid bounces in the game have become one of the biggest problems in the game because they are happening continuously, something that didn’t happen so often before.
1 Like
Well, imagine the FV4005, Centurion AVRE or the M728CEV, which thanks to the disastrous modeling of the HESH ammunition, you constantly have shots that do no damage, or do ridiculously low damage.
except the t58 where it’s HESH actually works
It’s strange that it works on one that reloads in 2 seconds. I actually tried it on the test drive and it seemed like just as bad a HESH as the others, but of course, the test drive has nothing to do with the damage on the server.
Yep, it is also premium, except the t58 all hesh only overpressures when it hits a plate less than the he penetration, it doesnt matter if the roof is 10mm, they wont overpressure
2 Likes
I have more trouble with the volumetric on the Tiger 2 than the IS-2 myself, but then I’ve played the IS-2 more so that probably skews it a bit, and like I mentioned before its far more frustrating when it happens with a ~20 sec reload vs ~7 sec.
Not even getting started with THAT bag of worms
If you are having difficulty with a 100mm turret, idk what to tell you. A tiger 2 88mm nearly can’t fail to pen unless you get to the edges of the turret. Meanwhile, the US 90mm APHE strugges with the tiger 2 mantlet just on pen numbers alone while it pens the is2 with no problem.
Tiger 2 turns faster, is2 accelerates slightly faster. In terms of mobility, they are nearly identical. Also, because the off center turret of the is2 it bounces far more when stopping than the tiger 2.
I have trouble with 45mm turret even while using 102-140 penetration guns and you apparently don’t understand the volumetric + flawed penetration mechanics issue, so just go away.
IS-2 turret front is a small target that will produce a ton of random bounces. Tiger II has good reload, so that’s not a huge issue. But this whole “but muh turret is paper” is as true as a claim that T-34-41 has 45mm turret front and thus is an easy kill. It’s not.
US 90mm indeed has to use APCR to ROFLpen Tiger II. Or Ferdi. Or Jagdtiger below 600. Yeah it will very likely not be a 1-shot. But it’s a reliable way of taking these out. Vs IS-2 1944 indeed 90mm is doing better, because it can penetrate the turret. Still, I do not trust a turret shot vs any Soviet tank with overlapping mantlet. And IS-2 1944 has the upgraded turret where there is more volumetric wizardry going on
Just take it’s LFP armor and move it down to 6.3.
This thing’s flaws restricts your gameplay by a significant amount and having a good shell isn’t really enough of a compensation for it’s woes.