Man lemme teach you… Maybe we will finally have a chance xD
I dont think much will change. Well maybe smth like vertical launched missiles like IRIS-T could be problematic tho. Other than that i dont see a reason to add 114L. 16 (very decent) FnF missiles is A LOT
In real life many of these have a minimum distance afaik. Putting that aside:
Helis are not necessarily deployed against SAMs.
Bombs, ATGMs, anti-radiation missiles much more likely.
Artillery. The key word is artillery.
Honestly, they should open up some of the air map for GRBs but only for SPGs and SPAAs. It will add a bit of a Hide and Seek for CAS, but at least they will have their own mini-game.
SPAA would be relatively safe from most ground threats (IRL not all of these systems are deployed so close to an active front line).
SPGs new task would be: provide indirect fire support against ground targets on main-ground map, provide counterbattery fire, and finally: attempt to snipe SPAA. Yes with the addition of counterbattery radars.
Light tanks could fly their drones to actively scout enemy SPAA, or SPG. Would declutter main ground map which is also why the small maps are problematic. This is also why CAS jets are OP - they dont really need to look for ground targets. They would also feel more threatened, as SPAA could be in many other places.
SPAA and SPG gameplay would be more active/ engaging.
SPG wouldnt be OP because shell travel time, and terrain. With everything being equally threatened targets would move perhaps more often.
Helis could scout. Since there would be an opening somewhere, that they could exploit, they could fill the traditional flanking/ cavalry role.
Anyways on the side note: SPAAs at the moment they are already a waste - considering they can do only one thing really. There are ways to use Helis even within the current meta really. If SPAA sits back and they cant provide coverage to their team, their team would be exposed to attacks from CAS and Helis - most players from what Ive seen actively pick an SPAA if they get killed by airborne threats. Eventually the enemy team will be full of SPAA or weaker vehicles that ground forces can exploit. So i that way, Helicopters are enablers within the current meta.
Those of us who know the general flow of a match, will leave after the first death - cause this snowballing effect is very much real.
Top-tier is totally destroyed by map flow and gameplay flow. CAS, and how strong it is, is a symptom, rather than the cause.
Giving helis FnF weaponry- Im not sure it would solve any problems for Helis.
Going back to tactics - scout before moving in. RWR can be used to scout as well :) I normally tend to be aware of threats - doesnt mean I wont die to it. Im not an experienced heli-pilot within war thunder - but I try to be methodical.
What I try to avoid: cresting. Nothing is more visible than peeking over a hill - I do it at times for a quick view with the high zoom camera. Than I get back quick to make up a plan, estimate if enemy is aware or not. If aware, Ill try to sneak around. I use low altitude to protect myself. Rather than cresting over, I try to sneak up in a valley to get closer, and remove the threat with alternative approaches - rockets, guns or if the enemy is not aware a missile. Would Hellfire Limas help? Definetly. Do I consider them essential? No.
France, Israel and Italy already have Spike ER missiles, Germany has PARS 3LR. China developed MMW seeker AKD-10s. The only nation that hasn’t developed a contemporary is Russia.
And before someone says it; no, LMUR is a contemporary of Spike NLOS and CM-502KG.
You don’t have to sit as long to lase targets effectively, which is the primary issue for Hellfires.
Yes I can avoid SAMs using terrain masking but the difference in time and sweat is unreal vs just spawning a fixed wing and tossing a Maverick or Kh-38, the implementation of missile physics for Hellfires also really screwed with lasing/duck/re-lasing. Not to mention how long finding a decent position vs how long a average top tier game lasts, Hellfires are just not worth it, at all.
Depends on the new SAMs.
What minor nations dont have fnf?? italy, france, israel, all have spikes. Sweden doesnt use the radar guided hellfires so im not sure what they could receive. so all but 2 (sweden and china) have fnf.
edit: japan can receive the hellfire L as well
you forgot another argument that could be used perfectly. (PARS 3 LR air-to-ground missile) and the (Spike ER air-to-ground missile). Just make the AGM 114L fire and forget. Until they area ready to add the systems that it actually used. And then update them a simple solution for a simple problem. But hey we are talking about gaijin and we all know they cant understand such thinking XD
Never.
People like you ruin the experience for everyone.
Im not the one who frequently leaves after 1 death. But the problem persists in the terrible gameplay flow within a match.
After 1st death, people expect CAS to run havoc on your team, who will take on SPAA in a futile attempt to reverse the flow of the match - only to be useless once CAS is gone or… when the enemy tanks start rolling over into the spawn zone.
Leaving earlier just means one thing: a shorter suffering. Both to you, your team and and the enemy team (arguably, it is always worth staying a bit more for an extra kill.)
Alternative take: speed is king. Smaller maps, you know that after you die, the enemy will get closer to locking you down in your spawn (getting into power positions), and its hard or impossible to get out from the established killzone.
So do I ruin the game for you? No. You do it for yourself by probably staying longer than you should have.
Yet again, I havent played GRB for a month, before that I might have left 1 game out of 30 after the first death.
Helis are already dead.
2-6
The first time you see them is when you’re firing at them…
Or you could just hit them with a single MG round so they can’t fire at all :p
edit : I thought better of this… but you can track helicopters easily without radar or even needing to see them.
At the moment it is known that the Mi-28NM helicopter has received the latest DIRCM, which deflects almost all missiles. It is not yet known whether this function will be available for all helicopters or just one.
typical bias, guess they didnt like the Namars and PUMAs with spikes yeeting KAs from distance with no counter play.
to be fair the no counterplay part was kinda annoying, but itd be beyond re****ed if they only added it to russian helos
the no counter player wasnt annoying, thats just a byproduct of gaijins “interesting approach” in creating an unbalanced mess which led to spikes being used in uncommon scenarios. especially for Isreal whos ONLY anti air was spikes on Namars :D
DIRCM didnt need to be added and ONLY got added because… surprise… IIR seekers are coming to the game, IIR seekers that are just glorified IRCCM coded with smaller FoVs when in reality are immune to this system (because they pull from an image database) but hey cannot have Russian helis getting boned from 6+ miles out without any counters :D
Idk. I think its stupid that you could be in a helo, russian or otherwise, and if a spike IFV or a Tiger/AH60 decided he wanted you dead there was really nothing you could do about it. Same way if a KA50 wants u dead there isnt really anything u can do about that either.
Bc of how the spike/pars lofts, it’s really hard to find a terrain feature to hide behind, you basically have to find some sheer cliff, and the way most of the maps are designed any sheer cliffs on the map usually face towards and not away from the tank battlefield where the missile would be coming from.
I won’t be able to kill tankers by the dozens with impunity anymore. Sadness and sorrow.
You weren’t ever able to. It’s so easy to spawn in an ITO/Pantsir/ADATS and do a clean sweep of any helos on the map. It’ll be even easier with the new spaa coming to the game.
Might have been stupid but again thats a byproduct of gaijins problems with the game. Should also be mentioned spikes on helis have a shorter range than the spikes on PUMA/Namars so its rare to kill a heli with a heli mounted spike as these only have a 5 ish mile range and with most spawns putting both helis further than 5 miles apart it just didnt happen often.
I’ve been in helis and died to spikes and honestly idc, the fact spikes for MANY was and is a better counter than dedicated SAMs tells you there is an inherent balance problem that they refuse to fix and DIRCM is just another kick in the teeth because cannot have Putins war machine getting wrecked by older equipment so it gets artificially gimped like the SLM and IIR seeker bs
Can’t disagree with you on this. I think the new sams being FNF as well as being missiles actually meant to shoot at aircraft should improve things significantly. I find that AAMs when you can get a solid lock (that isnt scrambled by the IRCM) are super lethal against helos.
With the Radar/DL setup that these sams are going to have, it should provide the helo player a window to break the radar lock in which case the missile has a decent chance of not finding him, but if he is too slow then the missile will lock on with its own seeker and he’ll be toast.
On a side note, I wish Gaijin would add the proxy fuze for the APKWS M151, that would give NATO helos an option against Russian helos that makes a lot more sense.
Nah.
Modern herli vs moder spaa.
You’re a hypocrite who wants an unfair advantage for aircraft over ground forces.
Oh 100% they are lethal, I was testing with a friend who had the SLS variant, he could easily kill helis from 6 miles out and RWR gave no warning other than MAWS flaring to avoid. but with the current IIR seekers being modelled with 2x the IRCCM values with lower FoV, DIRCM will effect them when reality it shouldnt.
So while SLS/SLM can be lethal to helicopters, it shouldnt be realistic for DIRCM to counter them (which atm they do) even with DL guided in.
Yeah makes sense. Hopefully you will at least be able to hold radar lock and babysit the missile with DL.