just got the pantsir and it still seems really good even with all the new spaa and fnf munitions
Yes. Its better than the Spyder at 12.7 and most, if not all 12.3s and yet is still sat at 12.0 despite absolutely curb stomping any 11.0+ CAS
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I think gaijin left it at 12.0 because its not fire and forget… but even then its still imo the best spaa for ussr
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yeah i just learnt how to guide and track mutiple targets at once with it and its so easier almost like hacking lmao i put on auto lead and it literally does 90% of the work
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yeah i prefer ussr spaa tbh the extra 30mm do help esp if the target is close i dont like most nato aa mainly because they lack anti self defence guns and will get you killed alot of times for that reason
Pantsir has a very useful place now against helis with iircm, as a heli player I always get far more careful when I see a pantsir or saclos AA on the enemy team
Pantsir was never OP.
It was a counter, and forces CAS players to be more observant of the battlefield.
Being a counter doesn’t make something OP, otherwise everything is OP just because it’s a counter.
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The Pantsir had the best range in game and was definitely more threatening than it’s counterparts, that’s also not counting the brutal 30mm guns
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Okay? That doesn’t make it OP.
There is no SPAA vs SPAA game mode either.
SPAA’s target is CAS, not other SPAA. So comparing SPAA to each other makes no sense when their primary duty is to take on CAS platforms.
Prior to Pantsir, LGBU CAS was physically unkillable due to the poor range of ITO-90M, FlaRakRad, etc.
Even then, Pantsir came in with missile guidance issues that wouldn’t be fixed until later 2024.
Pantsir of course still has flaws that high-maneuvering can avoid, paired with fire and forget munitions.
Just as Roland 3 balances out 10.0 CAS, Pantsir balances out 12.0 CAS.
And the new SPAA balances out 13.0 CAS.
It means the team with the Pantsirs had uncontested air control while the other team had to deal with the Pantsirs, the same way the IRIS-T dominated before Gaijin added more AA.
It’s not “balancing” if only one team gets to close the airspace
You telling me back then pantsir was never op? I don’t want to waste my time comparing these SPAA to Pantsir since it should be common sense.
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Pantsir is not and has never been uncontested. Pantsir’s counters [which are CAS, not other SPAA] have been getting added to War Thunder since 2022.
And again, a counter =/= it’s OP.
A counter is supposed to be balanced against the other counter. Ideally this leads to a 1:1 KDR on both sides, or as close as possible.
@CollectorOfSins
Are you implying ADATS and FlaRakRad are BR’d correctly?
Bcause they aren’t.
They’re inferior to Pantsir and over-BR’d.
Nope didn’t imply that. but before multi vehicle SPAA was added, Pantsir was the best SPAA. Pantsir prevented other nation CAS from flying and protected their flankers, allowing KH38 to rain down hell. Wasn’t that the cause for better SPAA to then be added?
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Right?
So KH-38MT vs ADATS. ADATS never stood a chance of even getting a shot oppotunity
but AGM-65 vs Pantsir was well and truly in favour of the Pantsir, you had to exploit extreme tactics and maybe, just maybe, get the kill. Usually required spamming 5+ AGM-65s at the Pantsir because they could intercept 4 targets at once.
Pantsir was the best SPAA in-game by a very very large margin, it is still the best 12.0 SPAA in game by a very very large margin and it easily outperforms most 12.3s and even the Spyder at 12.7.
It is 100% OP at only 12.0, 12.3 should be its BR at a minimum, if not 12.7. With the Tor-M1 being added to the soviets, it wouldnt create a gap
Pantsir and HQ-17 specifically were the best SPAA, and both were only really counters to LGBU CAS.
They couldn’t counter IR AGM CAS, or GNSS CAS. And only Pantsir today can barely handle the ordnance from IR AGM CAS when played somewhat recklessly.
However, a CAS player playing on their peak skill will not die to a Pantsir and frag it with a surprise attack.
Also, Kh-38MT would’ve been OP with or without Pantsir, because Pantsir did nothing to protect Kh-38 slingers from other aircraft. A 13km range at the time [now 16km range] doesn’t work when the AMRAAM slinger is 30km away firing from 12km altitude.
Let alone the sea level zoomers that camped the enemy air spawn with impunity [and still do].
To claim Pantsir could frag high agility targets, let alone below LOS or out to 40km is just wrong.
CAP aircraft are harder to frag than CAS aircraft because they bring less fuel and are lighter.
@Morvran
The only way Pantsir moves up is if ALL 11.7 - 13.0 CAS moves up by equal amount.
CAS can never be OP again.
So? 11.0-12.3 CAS has to be unplayable? and if the soviets get such a strong SPAA at 12.0 why doesnt everyone else? Why is such asymmetry acceptable?
12.0 CAS is no where near unplayable.
Learn the weaknesses of Pantsir and apply that knowledge.
Why is it people refuse to learn the weaknesses of one SPAA when you’ve learned the weaknesses of Rolands and VT-1s?
SPAA-CAS relationship at 12.0 is currently partially symmetrical with only ADATS and VT-1 systems being underwhelming compared to the CAS they face.
What’s a VT-1 supposed to do against F-111C/F or Harrier? Nothing. The latter’s always out of range.
Only HQ-17, Tan-SAM Kai, Pantsir, CS/SA5 and maybe Spyder can counter them with reasonable balance.
Pantsir-S1 is mid, it’s good at killing those who want to fly in a straight line and taking out air to ground munitions.
Other SPAAs being bad doesn’t make the Pantsir OP. Japan was stuck using the type 93 and Italy the Otomatic at top tier for years, did them sucking make the ADATS OP? No, because that logic is stupid. Yes the Pantsir was the best SPAA in game by a mile, but that was because the other SPAAs where entirely in adequate for dealing with CAS at their BRs.