Is the M1A1 armor bugged?

[P51ACE1943]

I do believe they modeled DU, but did a poor job at it. I’m pretty sure in one of the threads on the forum someone went and accounted for all weight based upgrades on the SEP v1 and calculated a decent bit of weight that was unaccounted for, meaning it had to go to armor. Since the density of tungsten and DU is publicly known, wouldn’t it be possible to calculate that relative to the remaining weight to see how much was added? Also I’m pretty sure there’s public information on the ratio of DU to RHA effectiveness.

[Just_Baron]

Thank you. It’s not so hard to just assume Gaijin did a poor job than to jump to the conclusion that the DU actually isn’t there at all.

[P51ACE1943]

I think the original issue in an older thread came down to if the LFP got DU inserts as well

It’s blatantly obvious on the v3 that the LFP, Turret Cheeks, and even the UFP got upgrades

[SpeclistMain1]

@Just_Baron

What I CAN show you is the Kevlar Spall Liner source talking about how that addition would be 4800 pounds and terrible for the vehicle’s mobility and sustainability.

Yes, we know that the Abrams (except for the SEPv3 maybe?) doesn’t have a curtain-style spall liner on the interior of the crew compartment like the FARV.

@Just_Baron

Using Deductive Reasoning, we can assume that if adding two tons to the M1A2 Abrams was considered highly impractical for the model due to weight concerns, their response to several more tons worth of DU would likely be the same if not stronger.

@Just_Baron

The suspension already struggled with the addition of the turret DU and other armor modifications.

It seems like you haven’t been paying attention to the Abrams threads, as the unupgraded suspension myth was debunked within hours of Gaijin posting their Abrams devlog.

Additionally, the GVSI simulation uses a simplified representation of the Abrams and purposefully relies on unclassified sources. Most of the references they use are from the 1980s - before weight saving measures were meant to be implemented - and the 1990s references from what I can tell are purely about non-armor systems (countermeasures, signature reduction, or just Jane’s).

@Just_Baron

Not only could the suspension not handle it, as seen actively discussed by the excerpt above, but it really wouldn’t be necessary either.

The M1A1s that got DU armor were retrofitted to have the M1A2’s upgraded suspension.

[Just_Baron]

@SpeclistMain1

Yes, we know that the Abrams (except for the SEPv3 maybe?) doesn’t have a curtain-style spall liner on the interior of the crew compartment like the FARV.

The document isn’t being used in the context of spall liners right now. The Abrams does not have one.

@SpeclistMain1

It seems like you haven’t been paying attention to the Abrams threads, as the unupgraded suspension myth was debunked within hours of Gaijin posting their Abrams devlog.

The document clearly states that only two tons would bring the M1A2 Abrams over its recommended weight limit. Any DU hull package would bring this weight up more than that.

@SpeclistMain1

Additionally, the GVSI simulation uses a simplified representation of the Abrams and purposefully relies on unclassified sources. Most of the references they use are from the 1980s - before weight saving measures were meant to be implemented - and the 1990s references from what I can tell are purely about non-armor systems (countermeasures, signature reduction, or just Jane’s).

Just_Baron:

Funny. This is a main source in one of the Top Abrams Threads.

@SpeclistMain1

The M1A1s that got DU armor were retrofitted to have the M1A2’s upgraded suspension.

I was never talking about the M1A1. The Document is for 1996, meaning it would be discussing the M1A2 primarily.

[MrBombastic8]

@SpeclistMain1

Yes, we know that the Abrams (except for the SEPv3 maybe?) doesn’t have a curtain-style spall liner on the interior of the crew compartment like the FARV.

no abrams have spall liners
maybe stuff like CATTB or like prototype base on abrams chasis but otherwise no

@SpeclistMain1

The M1A1s that got DU armor were retrofitted to have the M1A2’s upgraded suspension.

yeah but the ingame M1A1 isnt retrofitted version
and i find it hard to believe that 2.2x composite would only give +70mm ke
its kinda overperforming in ce tho