they should though? abrams non DU armor development didnt stop the instant they added DU
even though domestic abrams did all or almost all use DU because of export restrictions non DU armor packages were still developed and the in game abrams armor is identical to the one of those packages we know the values for as such it does not contain DU because in the same document that has that information it mentions that the domestic DU packages are more protective
Documentation on the HA upgrade program says otherwise.
No Abrams before the HA received DU inside IRL according to the DoD. The HC is the earliest in-game to receive them.
I am not able to send the documents to prove this, unfortunately. Gaijin doesn’t allow documents anymore due to classified leaks.
Aside from the SEP v3, there is no internal change to the armor between the M1A1 and M1A2 outside the DU additions that are publicly known.
wtf are you saying because I can guaranty that modern export abrams dont have the same protection as the basic m1a1
we also know for a fact that the armor package for the greek trials was significantly better than the one for the swedish trials and that both of them do not contain DU proving that non DU armor was still developed
I should have clarified but I meant after it was introduced with HA
What are you saying? The M1A1 did not receive the DU package. The M1A1 HA and above did.
Export models also lost their DU regardless if they received a DU package in US service. I never said they didn’t.
Export models such as the Ukrainian M1A1 SA in US service received DU, but when sent to Ukraine, they lost the upgrade package, which brings them back to the standard M1A1 protection.
then what is your point? because your entire argument is that because the m1a2 has better protection than m1a1 it must have DU
but we both agree that there were improvements in non DU armor so your claim is not inherently valid and when combined with the fact that the in game M1A1HC and on armor is nearly an exact copy of the values known for a non DU armor package that is specificaly stated to be less protective than the DU packages I dont know how you can keep arguing that they have DU in game
The primary difference between the M1A1 and M1A2 in real life is specifically the upgrade from Analog to Digital. The protection levels between an M1A1HC and an original M1A2 should be identical.
As far as I’m aware, the v3 is the only one with any major protection upgrades after the HA program, which can be visibly seen on the turret and hull.
This is an M1A2 SEP v1
This is an M1A2 SEP v3
The difference in thickness is obvious.
I agree that the current protection is probably lower than real life, but most MBT have this issue. The only reason I commented here at all was to correct the OP’s confusion and fix the blatantly untrue rumor that the in-game models don’t contain DU protection within their statcards. That Protection may be too low, but it is present.
It doesn’t.
The M1A1 uses BRL-2, the M1A1HC Clickbait uses HAP-2.
BRL-1 → BRL-2 → HAP-1 → HAP-2 → HAP-3 / EAP → NGAP
BRL-1 = M1/105
BRL-2 = M1 IP + M1A1
HAP-1 = M1A1HA
HAP-2 = M1A2 + M1A1HC + M1A1 AIM
HAP-3 = M1A2 SEP + M1A2 SEPv2 + M1A1 AIMv2/FEP (M1A1SA uses EAP, simply uses different material compositions to circumvent export materiel regulations)
NGAP = M1A2 SEPv3
yes I understand that but I disagree with the statement that they have DU because gaijin modeled them with an armor package that specifically does not contain DU and we know it doesnt contain DU because it would have more protection if it did
this is not necessarily true there are budget documents for armor upgrades in that time frame but gaijn ignores them because they dont give specific amounts
Something about the new cheek geometry on the M1A2 SEPv3 makes me ooze
This line of thinking doesn’t work when you know Gaijin has wildly fucked up on values in the past. The Sholef is still 15 tons over weight, had the wrong roadwheels, the wrong engine, still has the wrong reload rate, the wrong gun, and much more.
Just because the values are stupidly low doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
There were discussions of adding Kevlar Spall Liners, but they were not added due to weight concerns.
That may be what you’re remembering.
It wouldn’t? DU is less effective than tungsten in protective capability. The only reason it’s used is because America would need to pay ~65% less for domestic depleted uranium manufacturing rather than importing tungsten from China (reminder that China holds 83% of the world’s tungsten supply.
the in game m1a2 armor is pretty much identical to the swedish trials results which was explicitly a non DU armor package which in the documentation is stated to be significantly worse than the domestic DU armor package
I see that but I disagree
they modeled an abrams with protection from a source using a non DU armor package and did nothing to attempt to compensate for the discrepancy, so the in game m1a2 does not have DU
Then explain why the M1A1HC and M1A2 have better armor than the Non-DU M1A1 and they have officially stated on their wiki that the DU is present within the turret.
Saying “Composite change” is not correct and easily disproven. There isn’t a single DoD document that mentions a switch in composites between the M1A1 and M1A1HA. Only the addition of DU.
because they developed better non DU armor when they wanted to export the abrams
the game wiki is a terrible source and many of its pages are wrong
there is though
DU wasnt the only change it is a completely new armor package
Because it is “pretty much identical”. The only thing that changes between the trial model and the domestic M1A2 is that the two backing plates (the only DU elements in the HAP array) are replaced by tungsten…
If the entire armor array were made of DU, there would only be a compiling 1% difference in between each and every element of the composite array.
And? Do you think the domestic DU armor packages are simply Clark Kent with his glasses off?
There’s export and domestic production packages. The only reason why the armor package is non-DU is because there was a worldwide embargo of DU shipments anywhere over 1.5 tonnes.
Where is such said?
In what way would removing depleted uranium and replacing it with tungsten result in the protective capability being “significantly worse”?
because it wasnt them just replacing DU with tungsten
they might have done that for the greek trials but in swedish trials it was a completely different package
Where is a single DoD source mentioning that they changed the Armor of the M1A1 and M1A1HA aside from the addition of DU?
You’re claiming with absolutely no evidence. Just “Trust Me Bro”. I need proof to believe this. I have tons of documents saved and read through, and never seen any mention of what you speak of.
Pray tell, what else was changed about it? Are you saying Sweden received a T-72-aluminum-oxide-esque downgrade that effectively removed all armor in the vehicle?
I don’t care about “may haves” or “mights”, what else was changed. What package was used.
those sources dont say they just added DU they normally say they introduced new armor which includes DU
