Thank you bro, I am beginning to work on an updated version of the tree.
Edit: It is done.
I would strongly argue that, with proper filtering, this could easily be added as a single-line sub-tree. However, many omissions would still have to be made, even from the version of the tree I created.
There are only eight true (by definition) “copy-paste” vehicles in this tree, out of about 50. Many of the other vehicles may be similar to ones already in the game, but they feature unique upgrades, visual differences, or both, which have not yet been represented in War Thunder (Read the “Vehicles In-Depth” section).
For which nation, though? No space (or need) in the Soviet tree, and it doesn’t fit anywhere else.
My personal opinion is that Iraq should be added to Yugoslavia if Yugoslavia is ever introduced to War Thunder. Otherwise, only time will tell, and the final decision is up to Gaijin. In fact, when I originally started building the Ba’ath-era Iraq version of this tree, I had Yugoslavia in mind as the host nation.
The air forces could be integrated and mixed very well. Many of the air defence systems used by Yugoslavia were also used by Iraq (some Yugoslav vehicles (that were also in Iraqi service) could simply receive Iraqi camouflage options instead of being added as separate vehicles, helping save space for the other vehicles in the Iraqi sub-tree). At the same time, Iraq could bring several vehicles and systems that Yugoslavia could only dream of having.
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Forgot to specify what TT to go to (Spoiler: none of the existing TT’s) Since the USSR is a large enough TT on it’s own and if it needs a Subtree, there’s always Belarus, maybe the Central Asian nations like Uzbekistan. And China already has Pakistan with Bangladesh and Myanmar as potential options as well.
For Future TT’s, there’s 3 options:
The various Arab TT proposals: Self Explanatory
Yugoslav TT: Iraq and Yugoslavia have a strong working relationship together, both diplomatically and Militarily. Obviously there’s the OT M-60MP but there’s also the MiG-21’s and MiG-23ML’s Iraq sent to Yugoslavia for refurbishment. The main problem is that there’s better alternatives, mainly Libya. Iraq is not a bad option either
South Africa via the Jordanian (maybe Jordanian-Lebanese?) Subtree: The one country that Iraq has the most affinity with is in the region is Jordan. Though this also depends if you are a Sunni or a Shi’ite (the latter has a stronger affinity with Iran than Jordan). For starters, both used to be run by the same Monarchial Dynasty (The Hashemites), even though Iraq did overthrow the Kingdom by the Socialists headed by Abd al-Karim Qasim. Relationships did recover after the Socialists were successfully overthrown by the Ba’athists. Relationship further improved when Saddam Hussein was in power as both materially supported each other. Saddam Hussein even gifting some Soviet vehicles to the Jordanians such as the BMP-2 and Shlika. The BTR-94’s were also Ex-Jordanian. Even after the fall of the Ba’athists, Jordan and Iraq worked closely together against the War against Terror especially during the rise of ISIL. I also mentioned Lebanon in the equation since the Jordanians also materially supported the Lebanese government, even sending some of their old stock (e.g Charioteers) to Lebanon.
Finally Iraq does have some connection to South Africa, mainly with Gerad Bull (Canadian Weapons Engineer who worked for Apartheid South Africa for decades) in it’s development in the Al Fao, Al Manjoon SPG’s and Project Babylon Gun. Also the T-55 Enigma is similar to a armour package Kentron (a South African Defense Firm) had offered, meaning that there is a possibility that the South Africans may have an involvement in the Enigma upgrade package, not just the T-55. However i cannot entirely confirm that either so don’t quote me on that.
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In my opinion, your second proposal is a little too complex, while the Yugoslav merger is much more straightforward.
I also did not quite understand the Libya part. I do not remember Libya having that many unique vehicles, or vehicles and aircraft that were not already in Iraqi possession.
Yeah, the justification for the South African TT via Jordan can be a little bit schizo, I’m just stating it as another potential option.
For the Libya part. I mentioned that due to Libya, Yugoslavia and it’s successor states (particularly Serbia) have a strong working relationship. The Libyans even buying some Yugoslav Aircraft such as the G-2 Galeb & J-21 Jastreb. Libya does have some domestic upgrades, vehicles we don’t have in game and vehicles that they exclusively operate such as the EE-9 M3, KrAZ Cougar (9M133), Centurion Mk.5/2 AVRE, field modified Ratels, UAE built Pantsirs on MAN chassis instead of KAMAZ’s. The Libyans also modify their MiG-23’s to carry French SAMP-T unguided bombs and the Libyan Su-22M3 is different from the Syrian one. I could keep going but i’ll stop here since it’s getting off topic
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Does kafil was on purpose having appearance of merkava or was it just inspiration? Similar thing with Iranian magaches modified to look like abrams.
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That’s likely just a coincidence, but I suppose it is possible.
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always neat seeing one of my suggestions (in this case the Al-Fao) get mentioned in a TT suggestion
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ISU-152
Iraq reportedly had a small number of ISU-152s under the rule of Saddam Hussein, and at least one example was photographed as a wreck near Fallujah during or shortly after the 2003 invasion. The vehicle was destroyed by a powerful coalition munition, possibly an air-delivered weapon, which caused its ammunition to detonate and tore the armored casemate away from the hull. The precise model of the vehicle, its operational condition and the circumstances of its destruction remain uncertain. If the vehicle was genuinely employed by Iraqi forces during the conflict, this would represent the last known military use of the ISU-152.
Edit: The vehicle has been added to the tree.
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Big gun never gets old. There is also a joke with tanks is that they never get old they just rust away. You might not be able to slug it out with a modern MBT but there is always a job for you somewhere old ISU-152 can always do infantry support but one wonders if they made any changes to it.
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Iraqi Police
The vehicles used by the Iraqi police are an interesting case. They include a stripped-down T-72M1 featuring unusual rear mudguards, a bare-bones BMP-1, and a ZSU-23-4 Shilka whose original four 23 mm cannons were replaced with a twin ZU-23-2. The Shilka also appears to be fitted with a roof-mounted .50 calibre heavy machine gun mount, further increasing its utility in a ground support role. I will include the Shilka in the list below the tree.
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As an iraqi, that is very nice of you to make a suggestion for adding Iraq army to the game.
Thanks brother.
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Tank Police have been mentioned and have occupied this suggestion until bribe received…
These would be great as low tier versions and would be fun to see but I see much value in the ZSU with the .50cal being in infantry the Police Shilka would be a great suggestion the black paint would be unique.
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Fun fact, Iraq never used type 59 only soviet built T-54/55s, it only imported Type 69s from China, although it’s likely that they captured some from Iran during the war
Also the capture and ad-hoc use of Chieftain tanks in iraqi service, demonstrated horrendous reliability, leading the iraqi army to reject weapons packages from the UK at the time
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We can never be for certain about Type 59s, Saddam took everything he could get his hands on. When it comes to Chieftains, a few of em have been restored by some modern day Iraqi militias.
Very welcome.
I might start working on the Iraqi Air Tree soon.
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