Yes, the official response is also blowing off Chinese players.
“We don’t believe your bug reports, so have a Leopard instead”
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How about giving China their own server without access to US/EU and giving them whatever they want? Problem solved. US/EU/RU would be happier without them. Plus I wouldn’t have to see them drop N-Bombs in every other Air RB
That’s a pretty bold blanket statement to make. I suppose I can’t speak for everyone but I frankly don’t care if China gains access to F-35s in War Thunder. If those planes get used by Taiwan, for example, then by all means the Chinese tech tree should have them. Besides, this is a bit of an odd complaint to claim the entire opposition is based on when the F-35 will already be deployed to almost every tech tree in the game. Anybody taking that stance seriously is ignoring that China having the F-35 would hardly make a difference in how often the F-35 would be seen in hypothetical future top-tier air battles.
I think you’ll find that most people question adding Singapore to China on the basis that there really isn’t a connection between them. Most other subtrees in the game currently reflect some kind of geopolitical or military alliance, especially during or after WW2, or at the bare minimum geographical proximity.
South Africa-> was a Dominion of UK during WW2-> Deployed in UK tech tree
India-> was a colony of UK during WW2-> Deployed in the UK tech tree (I don’t agree with this placement but I understand the logic)
Finland and Norway-> Geographic proximity and military cooperation with Sweden-> Deployed in Sweden tech tree
Hungary-> Geographic proximity and was a minor Axis power-> Deployed in Italy
BeNeLux-> Geographic proximity and alliances prior to WW2 with France-> Deployed in France
Switzerland-> Geographic proximity and technological cooperation with Germany-> Deployed in Germany
Thailand-> Military and economic cooperation during and after WW2 with Japan-> Deployed in Japan
I’m willing to learn but I’m not aware of what strong connection Singapore has to China to justify deploying their vehicles there. Especially when you look at the other examples and how Gaijin has justified other tech tree placements, either the UK or Israel have a much better claim to Singaporean vehicles than China does.
They are distinct issues, as I thought I explained quite clearly in my original post. They are not essentially the same problem.
Players arguing for the exclusion of the VT-4 from the Thai subtree want Gaijin to make exception to an established rule for how they implement vehicles. That is their position.
That is not the same position as people questioning the possible inclusion of Singapore as a Chinese subtree. In fact, the people arguing that position are questioning why Gaijin would make an exception to an established rule.
One camp is advocating for Gaijin to maintain one standard. The other camp is is asking for Gaijin to tear that standard down.
Say what you will about me, but I’m not threatening the other side with making a bad-faith call to action.
China deserves to have better treatment in terms of its vehicles and how they are represented in War Thunder. I get that the VT-4 controversy has been a uniting force for the community, but it’s basically diverting attention from issues within the actual Chinese tech tree by demanding special treatment. If Gaijin caves to this demand, what is to stop any international community from organizing a campaign and demanding another nation’s vehicles without justification?
War Thunder players need to be working together to hold Gaijin to their own standards to defend ourselves from anti-consumer practices (which, to be honest, neither the Thai VT-4 nor Singapore are). If we break down the system by basically turning War Thunder into a shouting contest where whichever group of players can bully Gaijin the hardest gets whatever they want, we’re never going to be able to band together to stand against RP increases, antagonistic bug managers, or other changes that could negatively impact the whole community.
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he doesnt compute as soon as it comes to british commonwealth countries
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Adding hornets to the UK is just as bad as not adding the VT4 to Japan
And I’ve seen Brit mains complaining about them too which is even funnier considering it’s the arguably the best ARB 14.0 hornet and best GRB one
Or maybe the US?
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how…? it has the worst engines and the same AAMs?
like what actually makes it the best?
1280x BOL automatically makes it 2nd best at the very least. Paired with how iirc it has a better RWR than the MLU 2 hornet and the engines aren’t insanely better like F-15C vs. E (it might be lighter than the 18C too but I’m not sure), it’s a pretty strong contender for best 14.0 hornet. I said arguably for a reason, there are fair points for 1st or 2nd place depending on what you value more
You are overlooking the historical issues between China, the original producer of the Thai-operated Chinese equipment, and Japan, the nation in whose tech tree it is proposed to be placed. That is why you perceive them as two separate issues. If you view this from the perspective of Chinese players, you will understand why such strong opposition exists.
If this perspective remains unclear, let me use Germany and Israel as an example. Imagine if Gaijin insisted on adding Israeli vehicles as a sub-tree to the German tech tree, disregarding the historical context of Jewish persecution by Nazi Germany. Even though relations between Germany and Israel have normalized today, it does not change the fundamental nature of the historical suffering. By framing it this way, I hope you can better understand the sentiment.
Every decision must be considered thoroughly. One cannot simply use the simplistic reasoning that Thailand and Japan were former allies to justify rebranding Chinese-origin equipment as Thai and placing it into the Japanese tech tree. This is a very serious matter
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isnt BOL also not completely terrible atm barely actually doing anything?
no the swedish one is still as it has more CM
But Thailand DID buy that equipment, making it theirs.
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1280 is enough to overwhelm that with sheer numbers.
Fair, but 1400 vs. 1340 isn’t that bad of a difference compared to 1340/1400 to 120
This, however, does not change the fundamental fact that it is a Chinese-manufactured vehicle.
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I’m overlooking it because Gaijin overlooks it for every other nation in the game. Nobody gets a special pass to demand that their vehicles can’t be placed in somebody else’s tech tree.
German vehicles are in the Israeli tree. There are Japanese vehicles in the Chinese tree. Germany has a Canadian Leopard for some reason. There are US and Soviet vehicles in just about every tree.
Generally speaking, export vehicles are deployed alongside other vehicles of the same export operator, so long as that operator is present in-game.
And yes, there are some players who do protest this and throw a fit about it. But ultimately Gaijin doesn’t write them apology letters.
The real-life relationship between China and Japan and the atrocities committed there is indeed a serious matter.
The digital tank in the rated-E-for-everyone free-to-play video game isn’t.
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Please do not conflate these two matters. What we have here are spoils of war, obtained through conflict, not acquired by monetary means. Their fundamental nature is entirely different.
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But again, China willingly sold it. From that moment, what happens with that vehicle is both completely out of their hands and unrelated to them.
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I find it hard to understand why an all-ages video game should avoid mentioning history altogether. Moreover, I only emphasized that the reason for opposing the inclusion of Chinese-origin equipment into the Japanese tech tree stems from historical and current political issues. It’s not about who speaks louder having more legitimacy, but if the louder voice is grounded in these historical and political factors, then they indeed have valid reasons, and this issue cannot be ignored.
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What you said is useless; it doesn’t change the fact that this is Chinese-made. You should blame those German players instead. It’s their lack of effort in disputing with Gaijin that has led to their national signature tank—the Leopard 2—being available as sub-tree vehicles in several other nations’ tech trees now.
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