bij bolszewika! bij bolszewika!
wracaj do Rosji zdrajco
Welp, the moderators are gonna have a field day on this thread
I bet he destroyed the country
They should just shut down and wipe this thread atp
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It is a ragebait thread, gaijin pumps out a good one every few years. Remember the economy post?
Now I know why ABCs dislike mainlanders
Gaijin should start playing ads on the official forum
Industry rage bait plants would generate them so much revenue.
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for Chinese TT?
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What in the name of AI is THAT…?
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Its not AI actually, someone made it as a joke.
I found it from wishlist thread
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I made drawnings of these when I was five lol.
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There even is a prototype tank that has notable visual differences.
This Prototype would even be slightly better than the Thai tank, since it’s almost a ton lighter
Yet they added a Thai service Stingray instead just so they saved the money on the model, arguing “it’s the production Stingray”, which was never even offered to the US military in any way.
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polish T-34-85
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Philippines M113
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Getting lazier day by day…
And it really shows here. Legitimate concerns about the Chinese tree were answered with “We already have a bug report system, we don’t want to do anything more”.
And then they wonder people complain…
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come on now, take it to the DMs. No reason to get personal
As a singaporean i would like to give my thoughts looking at a lot of the replies in this thread…
Never seen so many people realise or care that we exist until now! haha
This is a bit long, but it gives some history and reasoning behind my thoughts
TLDR: Singapore makes most sense in the Chinese tech tree, followed by Israel.
I will not discuss navy since most players disregard that, and we don’t have anything realistically until the 60s, which WT hasn’t quite caught up to properly yet.
- Politically -
Singapore does have close ties with both Israel, and China (mainly ROC), and I am honestly very happy having Singapore in either of these 2 nations if it were to appear as a full subtree, and not as individual vehicles such as the current case with Pakistan. I absolutely refuse the idea of Singapore in the Japanese tech tree, as we have no deep ties in the same way we do with other nations. Plenty of better options are better than Japan after China and Israel, even USA and Germany would likely be more realistic and sensible picks. Putting all of ASEAN in Japan just because they have Thailand and Indonesia now makes zero sense and does not respect our history at all. Don’t get me wrong, i do like Japan, i even mained the tree for a good while, however this does not make sense in any way realistically, there are plenty better options over Japan as i mentioned before.
Singapore politically may not have a lot of ties to the PRC, however it DOES have a lot of ties with the ROC. The ROC segment of the Chinese tech tree in game is roughly equal to the PRC segment, as both are “China” and occupy roughly half the tree each (correct me if I’m wrong), where the ROC has a majority in the lower tiers, and PRC has a majority in the later tiers. China can be thought of a joint tree in this regard, neither PRC or ROC are a subtree of the other. People seem to forget ROC is in the tree a lot of the time…
SAF (Ground forces)
China and the SAF
Because Singapore is pretty small and lacks open space for military exercises, Taiwan hosts SAF troops for training exercises. I will quote wikipedia:
In 1975, Premier Chiang Ching-kuo and signed an agreement codenamed “Project Starlight” (星光計畫, also known as Hsing Kuang), wherein Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) troops would be sent to Taiwan for training and joint exercises. These exercises, engaging as many as 10,000 troops at any one time, provided officers a chance to simulate wartime conditions more closely and gain experience in the command and control of operations involving several battalions. Three military bases in Taiwan were used by the SAF.
We continue to do joint military drills both in Taiwan and with the ROCA, as well as drills with PLA Example 1, Example 2. We are a neutral nation and we make an effort to do joint drills with both PRC and USA, in order to remain independent and not become a puppet state of either major powers. However, due to the ties with ROCA, this does make sense having Singapore as part of the Chinese tech tree.
Israel and the SAF
Israel also does make sense politically in terms of that we buy a lot of military equipment from them. Many of our weapons and even some entire systems are Israeli, such as the SPYDER air defence system, SPIKE missiles, and electronic systems. I’m sure there’s many more examples and I’m not listing all of them.
RSAF (Air force)
China and the RSAF
ROCAF played a very big role in training the RSAF after we acquired aircraft such as the A4 and F5. They also sent senior officers as advisors and instructors, such as Major-General Luo Yuanfa (羅元發). Quote ChatGPT:
- He was seconded from the Republic of China Air Force (ROCAF) to assist Singapore shortly after independence.
- Helped establish organizational structures, training programs, and doctrine for what later became the RSAF.
- Worked with Singaporean leaders like Ngiam Tong Dow and Winston Choo during the formative years of the SAF.
- Advised on pilot training, base operations, and maintenance systems before Singapore had its own qualified senior air leadership.
Taiwan helped the RSAF additionally by providing a large amount of support such as: air bases; pilot, weapons, and tactical training; logistics and ground crew exposure; as well as an early structure for air defence training before nations such as US provided any help. It wouldn’t be far to say Taiwan was one of the biggest reasons the RSAF was able to become a proficient force. They were there for us when we weren’t as economically and politically big as we are today.
Israel and the RSAF
RSAF is modelled around a similar premise to the IAF, and they have also helped us in many ways similar to Taiwan. I will not list the same reasons again. We also additionally buy a lot of weaponry and equipment from them, such as the Python and Derby missiles, as well as a host of UAVs like the Heron. Israel was also there for us in the beginning and helped shape the RSAF into what it is.
Other nations
More recently other nations such as the USA helped train RSAF, such as the Peace Carvin program. There are plenty more examples i am not listing here.
Political Summary
Singapore does make the most sense in either the Chinese or Israeli tech trees politically. In a less ideal case, they would go to USA (for the F-15SG and other aircraft) or Germany (for the Leopard 2SG and other ground vehicles) if treated in a way like the leopard 2PL.
- In Game and Gaijin Sub-Tree Placements -
Gaijin tends to implement subtrees to fill gap in tech trees, whether or not its a controversial change or not (BeNeLux). It is generally to add unique or different vehicles that would add new “playstyles” and improve the “competitive” nature of the tree.
What Singapore has to offer:
These are our most notable vehicles, i may have missed others, feel free to correct me…
SAF
Leopard 2SG (Upgraded 2A4 with a similar package to the leopard 2PL, and looks far cooler)
Leopard 2A4
Bionix 25 (Armoured vehicle similar looking to the M113, 25mm Bushmaster)
Bionix II (Armoured vehicle similar looking to the M113, 30mm Bushmaster)
Hunter AFV (Armoured vehicle similar looking to the M113, 30mm Bushmaster, SPIKE)
AMX‑13
AMX‑13 SM1 (Upgraded)
SSPH Primus (155mm howitzer, looks a bit like the Sholef turret on an stretched M113 shaped hull)
AMX-10P
AMX-10 25 (25mm gun on an AMX-10 hull)
AMX-10 PAC-90 (90mm gun on an AMX-10 hull)
M113 with Iglas (can’t remember name, ugly)
AH-64D
UH-1 (cant remember)
Allouette
RSAF
SPYDER
ASTER-30
F-35A / B (on order but will come in future)
F-16A / B / C / D / D+
F-15SG (upgraded F-15E somewhere between E and EX)
F-5E / S
A-4B / S / SU (upgraded A-4S with more weapons and an f18 engine)
Hunter (cant remember which)
Strikemaster
Israel
Realistically, due to how similar our stuff is, we aren’t realistically adding enough new unique vehicles to Israel that they don’t already have some sort of vehicle with a similar performance or capability.
The only new vehicles realistically would be the 2 leopards which are different to what is in the tree.
Hunter would be realistically a less armoured Namer IFV, and has pretty much the same weapon set, this can be said the same with Bionix, minus the spike, though im sure Israel has a bushmaster IFV with no spike.
AMX-13 is already in the tree, and AMX-10P may fix a tiny AA gap, however the 25mm variant would suffer the same fate as the Bionix, and the 90mm wouldn’t fill any gaps that AML-90 and AMX-13 don’t already fill, and aren’t very unique in playstyle.
M113 Igla is overshadowed by both the Machbet and the Chaparral, and would not add anything to the tree. ASTER could potentially fix an AA gap, but im sure Israel already has a domestic equivalent, and Israel mains would not want it taken away for a copy paste vehicle. SPYDER is pretty much the same, except the multi vehicle one.
The Primus is similar to the Sholef, albeit less armoured, and would not be different enough for gaijin to likely consider adding it.
Our aircraft are essentially almost the same as Israel, and we would add pretty much nothing to their air tree at all. We even use the same suspended weaponry in many cases. Our best offering of the F-15SG wouldnt fill any gaps due to the F-15I and IA. Our F-5s would only bloat the tree further, and wouldn’t provide any missing fighter or CAS capability not already there. Our A-4s are also comparable to upgraded Israeli A4s, so that wouldnt be different either…
The helicopters additionally dont have much to offer, other than maybe an allouette, which is not needed considering the Israelis have the lahatut. I’m not even sure if our allouettes were armed…
China
I believe that Singapore brings the most to the chinese tech tree, supplementing the mid and top ranks with some extra capabilities. Whilst taiwan has similar F-16A/V variants, Singapore could bring a F16D/D+ with stronger cas weaponary, which china lacks in the air tree.
The F-15SG could provide a backbone for CAS at the top rank, being able to carry similar and familiar medium range A2G weaponary to that found on the F-15I. The PLAAF part of the tree lags far behind in terms of fixed wing CAS capability, and I believe that F-15SG would greatly help fill this gap. The J-16/15 which china could use in the future can only really look forward to the KD-88 and potentially Kh-29 and GB series of GBUs (Correct me if im wrong), whilst the F-15SG has access to a wider variety of A2G munitions, as well as being able to carry more.
For mid rank, our F-5s again are not a huge addition, and wouldnt fill any gaps, other than a potential F-5S with more advanced AAMs. The main mid rank option would be our A-4s, providing much needed cas to the chinese mid ranks, as do the israeli A-4s. China doesnt have many good options at mid rank other than maybe the Q-5 and the F-100. The A-4 brings more advanced guided munitions as well as CCIP/CCRP suites.
The AH-64D for SG may not really add anything unique to the helicopter tree, but it could be the new Pack premium for the Chinese tree, as it currently does not have one. The UH-1 series could potentially replace / come after the Z-11, bringing a helicopter with actually decent unguided rockets, though it wouldnt be a big addition.
For ground, both the AMX-13 and other 90mm vehicles from the SAF would provide some more mobile firepower to the 6.7 mid rank, which is sparse. Tracked 25mm and 30mm vehicles like the AMX-10 25 and Bionix would add new autocannon vehicles to the light tank line, supplementing and adding more options around the ZBD-04, though it would be not a major addition, if ROCA was to receive its Clouded leopard series of light wheeled vehicles.
Our AA systems may not add much to china, so i wont really explain these. As with Israel, the leopards add a new playstyle MBT to the chinese tree, which suffers from less mobile, autoloading ZTZ-96 and VT-1/4 MBTs. The 2SG could complement the ZTZ99 at the top ranks providing a flexible and mobile alternative.
In summary, the most notable of Singapore to the chinese tree is in its fixed wing cas capability, though it does add more options for light tanks that china currently lacks.
- Summary -
Singapore is most suited to the Chinese research tree in its current state, able to provide new cas capabilities, as well as a few unique lighter vehicles bringing china in line with other nations across the BR range. I hear the concerns that people dont want singapore to be a quick fix solution to all of the problems with the chinese tree, though if china HAD to receive a sub-tree, China would make the most logical sense to receive it, due to both tech tree gaps (based on Gaijins logic) and political ties with ROC. If not in china, it would make a little sense in Israel purely politically, though i personally believe it would not add enough to the tree to be justified as a subtree for them. Israel may be suited more for a subtree like Turkey (that a friend suggested to me), though im not entirely sure.
As with VT-4, i believe that Thailands sub tree should receive it. The chinese tree also needs more domestic options added to it, and must have the many bug reports and issues in it fixed.
As all minor nations seem to be receiving subtrees, if it is inevitable, i hope that Singapore is added to the game, as it would be amazing to finally see some representation of us.
Majulah Singapura! i hope we make it into the game!
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The thing is whilst I agree with you, gaijin seems to treat RoC as PRC. All RoC vehicles have the communist insignia in the name.
