None of the other trees like Israel or Sweden can offer such variety.
That may be true for Israel especially if we are comparing Air & Helicopter TT but Sweden is way more debatable since Sweden does have a lot of unique and quirky vehicles in the Swedish TT. The Helicopter TT may be an exception and even then only the AHS is a proper Copy n Paste vehicle. Every other Helicopter in the Swedish TT is semi-unique either with a different weapon loadout (HKP3 & HKP9’s), a foreign helicopter that not in their nation of origin’s TT (Mi-28A) or some other gimmick (HKP2)
Except for the fact that most of the properly unique Finnish vehicles are all either premiums or event vehicles which the Finnish playerbase resents. This is especially bad in Air since there is very few options left. Also outside of the Penguin ASM for the F-5 & 16’s every Norwegian vehicle is pure Copy n Paste. Personally Denmark and Norway are a better fit as a Benelux subtree than a Finno-Swedish one
Israel is built on Mandatory Palestine, a British colony in the name of the Zionist nation building project which the British overwhelmingly supported. Also there’s a lot of British mains that despise having subtrees in their TT since it robs them space for Unique British vehicles such as a lot of the domestic British Armoured Cars and Anti-Air systems as examples. Britain already has Australia, Canada and South Africa as subtrees. And it’s becoming increasingly clear that India is going to suffer the same fate as Finland or Israel prior to the Israeli TT where all of their unique vehicles are all Premiums or Event and if they have a TT vehicle, it’s Copy n Paste slop that nobody asked for and only serves as a lazy gap filler.
As for Korea. I would advise you against comparing them to Japan in any capacity. Crimes against Humanity aside. Yes they are a former Japanese colony. However military tech wise has nothing in common with Japan. The DPRK barely operated any weapons of Japanese origin that was grandfathered in. The ROK never operated any weapon of Japanese origin at all. Also they kicked out all high ranking Japanese officials including and especially military officials. If anything India has way more in common with Japan that Korea does in the form of the INA and in extension a significant portion of India’s officer core were trained by Imperial Japan (same goes for Pakistan).
I agree your points about Sweden having a lot of unique developments in Ground or Air, but my thinking was more in Naval domain where India has significantly more number of warship or boat types that can be included in game. Granted India didn’t operate any Battleship or Heavy Cruisers so its feasibility in game can be debatable.
The Swedes and even the Finns had Battleships/Coastal Defense Ships however you are not wrong that they don’t have a huge navy. Then again it would be A: still bigger than Israel’s and B: not every TT needs to be huge
Doesn’t change the fact that Korea served Japan throughout the second Sino-Japanese War/WWII. Italy denounced fascism in 1945, didn’t change the fact that they were Axis, Korea does not deserve the same sympathy: they still participated in the Axis, even if they proclaimed they hated Japan (weird how American occupied Korea denounced Japanese military officials, almost like the Japanese signed a treaty with the US or something about not being a military power ¯\_(ツ)_/¯).
Korea relied on Japanese equipment until 1945, and were still using Japanese weapons in the Korean Civil War (which was later hijacked by an illegal UN action). Politics aside, Korea was Japanese, they used Japanese equipment, and Japan has equipment in their tech tree that both Koreas used/use (American tanks like the Sherman were used by the southern part of the peninsula, MiG 29 is used by Korea).
Back on topic, what has India done to deserve a status as an independent tree? The first half of the British tech tree was used by India, even later vehicles like the Vampire and Jaguar was used by India. “But but muh unique vehicles” and? A modified T-Series tank can easily fit into the tech tree, as can renamed Mirages that can be foldered with the Phantoms or Tornadoes. Or just folder the Tornadoes together, and then keep the actual fighter line (with the Lightning) used for South Africa and India (Mirage III, F1, Atlas, and Rafale).
Found this site which lists all the Mig21 variants in Indian Air Force service. IAF MiG-21 Variants: Evolution from Fishbed-C to Bison
It lists some additional variants not mentioned in the tree like the F-13 (Type74), PF(Type76).
The evolution of all variants from this source in Indian service would be:
F-13(T-74) → PF(T-76) → FL (T-77)-> T-76(UPG)->T-77 UPG ->M/MF(Rus)(T-96)->M/MF(HAL T-88)(T-96)->bis(T-75)->Bison(T-75 UPG).
You acting like they had a choice and that the whole of Korea wanted to join the war willingly, the vast majority of Koreans didn’t wanna serve under the Japanese military willingly many were forced and the small number of “volunteers” were coerced, deceived and forced by the Japanese administration to join.
How can Korea have relied on Japanese equipment until 1945 when they didn’t have their own government and military? However after the war Southern and Northern Forces did use captured Japanese small arms (North Korea did have heavier weapons but fase them out quickly) just like any other country after WW2 that was under Japanese occupation.
Yes, Korea was annexed by Japan and they both used captured Japanese equipment when they got liberated and starting forming their own government/military.
However Korea having similar weapons to some Japan isn’t really a justification, the ROC for example has also similar weapons yet it is not
Occupation or annexation shouldn’t be used a justification, i look at when both India and Korea gained independence and established their own government and military. You however can still see that the Indian military purchased or even cooperated with UK on military hardware while Japan had no cooperation and never interfered in both Korean military expansions and industry.
India should and could have been it’s own thing but it isn’t crazy that they ended up in the UK TT, however maybe Gaijin in the future could change it’s mind as India does have tons of unique stuff.
You and I will disagree about how we feel about a theoretical Korean tree, so we’ll just end the debate there (I also don’t feel like getting you and I banned because “off topic”).
We both know Gaijin will never do any unique vehicles, when they can easily make a select few a premium/squadron in Britain (T-90, that V tank I’m not going to attempt to spell, MiG 21), and they learnt what happened with Israel (but at the same time, they probably shouldn’t have put the one controversial nation in the game as an independent tech tree), so I doubt they will do that when they can easily throw it into the British tech tree.
This is how I’ll arrange the TT. Based on roles instead of vehicle manufacturer’s nationality. It ended up with 4 lines where Indian operated vehicles with the 5th being the subtree. Afghanistan, Armenia and Sri-Lanka being the chosen nations. It will also start at Tier IV like Israel since there’s too many gaps at the lower BR’s and the 3 other nations don’t have enough vehicles to fill the gaps. And some have very spare info around them (e.g: Afghan Il-10’s) if they even operated them at all
India was offered the HA-300 by Egypt and Spain before back when it was known as the “Hispano HA.P 23”, India both rejected it though India did sent a delegation including a test pilot to Egypt to test the HA-300, hence why it’s added as a squadron vehicle.
Sri-Lankan Kfir’s were modified to Block.60 specifications (both C.2 & C.7’s which Sri-Lanka operated prior) hence why the modified C.2’s were specified. Armenian Su-30’s can use Radar Guided AAM’s however they will be weaker than their Indian Counterparts hence why the lower BR. There’s a couple of Armenian vehicles that aren’t added due to not having a lot of info around them. Mainly the MiG-23MLD & MiG-25PD
I also put my version in 4 lines (though it’s organised differently)
However, what brought you to put the Tejas so high? The Mk1A can probably be there with its full armament, but the others I’m really not sure. The placement of the harriers is also weird imo (LUSH gets asraam yk) and you forgot stuff like the Su-30K
The Br’s aren’t finalised. The Tejas’s BR’s is largely dependant on several factors like Armament and AESA as well as preformance (all of the Tier VIII Tejas’s won’t have AESA ability. Possibly the Mk.1). The LUSH Br is incorrect. It would be BR 12.7 or 13 like the Sea Harrier FA.2. The Su-30K would be MKI unless that’s a different aircraft variant
Yeah, I’d put a Mk 1 IOC II around 12.7-13.0 with R-73, Mk 1 FOC somewhere 13.x with adapted armament, and Mk 1A at 14.x with its never-ending list of armament and AESA.
Yeah, would be so peak. By the way my version has 2 early sea harriers, I included the T.60 so I could have a magic 1 carrier at a low BR and a magic 2 version at a high BR! That, plus the LUSH at rank 8 with ASRAAM
The Su-30K is the first batch of Su-30MKI received by India (now resold to another country iirc). They’re different from the MKI we know, much more basic Su-30 variant (with no canards for example) that would sit at 13.0 like the Soviet Su-27S
Good to know. Though i’d probably make the T.60 a premium or event vehicle instead. The 30K could be a good gap filler. There’s other vehicles that are on my radar but i’m not sure if they are possible to add such as the Tu-142. And some that are currently proposals such as the Mirage 2000EG Mk.II from Greece which could be another potential Premium. There’s a few that i intentionally left out for various reasons. Such as the various evaluation vehicles (e.g Tu-22M) or for redundancy reasons.
I could lower the BR’s of the Protoype and pre-production Tejas’s but not the Mk.1A since that variant will get any of the weapons it would get in the foreseeable future since that is supposed to be the penultimate version
Just found out that Armenia now uses Iranian bombs on their Su-30’s so it would be unique. If only Armenian Su-30’s were modified by HAL to use Indian Munitions on top of the Iranian ones since they did asked HAL to modify their Su-30’s.
I intentionally left the Mossie and Hurricane out of my proposal mainly in case if a Tier III start becomes a possibility. There’s also a few vehicle placements that I don’t agree with such as the Kiran and BR. 1050 though that is understandable since you are basing it off of how Gaijin implements vehicles. There’s also a few vehicles missing but again I think that is intentional for streamlining reasons.
I also did that at first, but then I wanted a magic 1 variant while the FRS.51 had magic 2 so I picked it
Yep, pretty cool. It’s basically a Su-27S except it gets the extra hardpoints of later Flankers (at the cost of extra weight)
Yeah I only took the service vehicles and indigenous prototypes but there’s more we can add surely
Absolutely, the Mk.1A should be the top tier beast. I just put it 14.3 because it has a rather low missile count, but the top tier meta is gonna keep changing anyway so that doesn’t really matter
That’s good to know, interesting. I wasn’t aware of that
Yeah, I just Israelized my version for simplicity but those could be in rank 3 if we get lower ranks obviously.
I put the Kiran there because it would basically be a slightly worse strikemaster, and I only did it because I put the HJT-36 instead. But of course the Kiran could be tech tree too. As for the Alizé I made it “event” not as an event but because it would probably be a “special” vehicle limited to naval, so I set it aside (squadron also works I guess)
Which ones? Other than some forgettable MiGs I left out to limit the copypaste
